Shore landing ground effect

[Baz000]

Not sure if potentially a bug or not, but I have 3 different tracks of me trying to land in the F-14B landing instant action mission, but I also noticed this same thing happen in the shore landing tutorial mission.

From my understanding typically Navy aircraft land ashore using roughly the same exact techniques on approach and touchdown, as they would on the boat to reinforce such perishable skills. (which would be like an arrested landing minus the arrestment)

I've been experiencing a "floating" effect with the Tomcat when I approach the runway for touchdown, obviously there is a ground effect phenomenon... But if you look at my tracks I'm holding my AOA and rate of decent pretty much rock solid until over the ground and the plane flattens out and seems to want to climb.

I realize the Tomcat had massive wings and lift from the "pancake" and square footage of the wings, I tried 3 different techniques to arrest this floating tendency.

First, I tried landing like I would like a normal Navy aircraft and just let it slam on to the deck without any power correction or DLC input, etc... She floated away down the runway and then finally came down on her own.

Next, I tried to pull the throttles to idle immediately when I saw I was close to the ground and saw VSI change from rock solid 500 fpm decent to beginning to flatten out, this had the desired effect of not floating or eating up precious runway length, however I think my AOA changed from onspeed upon touchdown because of the rapid throttle reduction

Lastly, I tried doing the same exact thing except leaving the throttles alone and just slamming the DLC open and leaving it that way until I touched the ground, looked like I didn't land at onspeed either and seemed like a hard touchdown.

Anyways, dunno if maybe this is a bug or not but trying to land ashore she seems to really want to float despite being rock solid on the VSI and AOA up until just prior to touchdown.

Tracks attached below:  float, idle, slam'd DLC

f-14b_grnd_float.trk f-14b_grnd_idle.trk

f-14b_grnd_slam_DLC.trk

I think i'm doing everything correctly (don't pay attention to the nose dive I get into at the start, I try to setup my cockpit lights)

wings are already at auto, I extend speed brakes, at 250 I lower gear, at around 220 I lower flaps, and when flaps are fully lowered I engage DLC (I used to do that when I see change in VSI but with the latest patch I would just drop a flare lol... So now I do it when the flaps are shown fully down on the cockpit indicatior)

so I dunno what gives? I should be properly configured for landing, and not doing a number like this

I just read some of the NATOPS again and it says the following... So, I suppose the expected behavior would be the plane hits a spot onto the ground that the pilot aims for flying the ball at FCLP but since we don't really have that I aim for around the PAPI lights pretty much. Anyways, the only action requred by the pilot is that upon touchdown the throttles are immediately brought to idle power.

"The quality of the approach and touchdown is
enhanced by starting from on−speed and altitude. The low
thrust required in the landing approach leaves little margin
for corrections from a high, fast position. Therefore, the pilot
must control these parameters precisely from the onset of the
approach to touchdown. Inertia and tail movement in con
junction with engine thrust response characteristics dictate
the use of small, precise corrections on the glideslope for the
most effective control technique.
The landing should be planned for the downwind side
of the runway with traffic behind or opposite the nearest
traffic on landing rollout, or on the turnoff side of the runway.
When surface wind is not a factor, pilots should practice
flying on the field optical landing aid system whenever pos
sible. Fly the aircraft down to the deck without flaring so as
to accurately establish a touchdown point and achieve initial
compression of main gear struts to arm the spoiler brakes.

Note
Landing with DLC engaged will reduce the
amount of aft stick deflection available. DLC
should be deselected when established on
landing rollout.

7.4.16.2 Touchdown. To avoid tail−ground clearance
problems, pitch attitude should not exceed 15 units AOA. At
touchdown, immediately retard throttles to IDLE and confirm
spoiler brake deployment. Expeditiously lower the nosegear
to the deck and, without allowing the nose to come up, position
the stick full aft."

It doesn't seem to mention "prior to touchdown" "do this or that" (for example hold DLC extended until wheels down or bring power to idle prior to touchdown, etc...)

Found this blurb tho in an older NATOPS:

"fly the airplane down to the deck and refrain from flaring so as to accurately establish a touchdown point and achieve initial compression of the main gear struts to arm the anti-skid and spoiler brakes. With the wings forward ground effect is pronounced and sufficient controllability is provided so that corrections can be made in ground effect."

BINGO?

Still, it doesn't define HOW the pilot goes about making corrections inside ground effect! 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Baz000

[ricktoberfest]

Sounds to me like you’re coming in too shallow. I don’t know if it’s different with the tomcat but with the hornet it should be around 700 fpm. I think you’re getting into ground effect and there’s not enough vertical velocity to overcome it without adjusting the throttles

(Note that I haven’t watched your tracks/videos, I’m just guessing by the fact you said you were coming down at 500 fpm)


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[Baz000]

I'll give 1,000 fpm a go and see the reaction when I get a chance later today.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Baz000

[Airhunter]

I'll do some field landings too and will report back if I can see a difference to pre-pathc (done a TON before the patch). 

[Baz000]

I just did 1,000 fpm decent and she isn't landing flat or floating which is as to be expected so maybe 500 fpm is just way too darn shallow? Gonna try around 750 fpm and see. I think for a carrier landing aren't they shooting for about 800 fpm decent rate?  I seem to remember 800 fpm for the Hornet in particular for some reason.

f-14b_grnd_1000fpm.trk

Edited October 26, 2021 by Baz000

[Baz000]

So, I tried 750 fpm -ish... Interesting thing, I can hold 500 or 1,000 fpm pretty well but 750 fpm really takes alot more finesse on the throttles, the slightest power on or off trend as you adjust has you missing the mark. So it took me far more attempts to try holding around 750 fpm as the decent rate to touchdown. But it looks like she sticks the landing once near the runway, as opposed to trying to float away.

Maybe I hold 500 and 1,000 fpm so much better because I have a distinguishing longer mark on the VSI for those 2 whereas 750 fpm is an extrapolation between those 2 longer more defined marks

f-14b_grnd_750fpm.trk

Edited October 26, 2021 by Baz000

[Baz000]

strange, when I tried replaying the tracks myself to watch and make sure I had a stabilized decent and was onspeed AOA on just prior to and upon touchdown... I just see the plane crashing to the city to the left of the runway or the bunch of trees to the right... So far I only played the "float" track but I'd take an educated guess that maybe all of them are messed up like that.

For the record, yes I did land on the runway on all of them