Emergency Wing Sweep Handle

[Baz000]

 

Am I doing something wrong? Is it me? Or is this an intended feature to have to "wrestle the wings" or did I come across a potential bug that the wing sweep handle doesn't seat into the spider detent when it ought to?

[Golo]

Do not move the wing sweep handle all the way forward from oversweep, it will not move if you do that, as you shown. I always only bring it to 68° position push it down and press master reset. Never failed to move for me that way.

[Eagle7907]

I do the same. Push down the handle around 68 degree sweep. Close the cover. Press master reset. Select Auto sweep.


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[Baz000]

According to the HB cold start Tutorial I am positioning it correctly (assuming their tutorial is correct?)

"Move the emergency wing sweep handle to the fully forward position, 20 degrees, engage the spider detent by pushing the handle down and close the guard."

Where do you think I learned to move the lever fully forward and then push it down? I know it wasn't just something I made up by myself lol

 

** I think I figured it out, apparently there is a difference between moving the emergency wing sweep handle VIA the mouse scroll wheel (as indicated in the tutorial) vs. Left clicking with the mouse and dragging forward (which has been what I have been doing, I never really moved the thing ever with the scroll wheel)

That is what I think is going on.

I tested some more and yes, that is what is happening... Left click and drag= you seem to not be seated in the detent and using the scroll wheel seems to have it seated when I go to bomb mode after extending to auto (you can tell when I use scroll wheel on mouse because the lever doesn't move in 1 smooth total motion but rather in "interval" from the mouse wheel)

Dunno if that is a feature that is intended or what

Also here is what the Natops from the B says: So you guys doing it at 68 degrees are doing it not in accordance

Edited November 13, 2021 by Baz000

[Eagle7907]

Burn….


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[Baz000]

I also noticed looking more carefully that the HZ TAIL AUTH light is not illuminating coming out of OVSW.

And in DCS the throttle switch can't apparently be put in any position any time the emergency wing sweep handle is in a raised position, which makes times you set AUTO in the checklist do nothing.

Where it says the AUTO and MAN modes are "enabled" doesn't mean you can't select it on the throttle switch like some kind of mechanical lockout, it is more like inhibiting it... It means that the wing swing sweep will not command to those positions until out of emergency wing sweep and back in the spider detent and the master reset switch is depressed.

 

Because if that were the case, wouldn't items numbered 49 and 50 be in reverse order? So Master Reset gets pushed first and then the Wing Sweep mode switch set to AUTO? Also, this is while the wing sweep handle is in the OV SW position that the next step is to set WING SWEEP MODE switch on throttle to AUTO.

Also says the HZ TAIL AUTH light should illuminate when coming out of OV SW in the HB cold start tutorial too (but it does not in DCS currently)

Edited November 13, 2021 by Baz000

[Golo]

You are supposed to do steps 44 to 46 in manual WS mode, not ememergency WS mode. As you said, throttle WS switches dont work in emergency mode. As for steps after 48 its just not very clearly written and missing some steps I would say (like coming out of oversweep again).

 

[Baz000]

This is the difference of setting the wings to AUTO while in over sweep and then pressing the master reset. Which again, I reiterate is not possible in DCS because it does not register your setting of the switch position on the throttle any time the emergency wing sweep handle is raised. Whereas on the real aircraft the wing hat positions have detents on AUTO and BOMB and momentary to forward and aft sweep. (to put it simply) The electrical signals from the switch may be inhibited or disabled but the mechanical function still works. Pressing the master reset button makes the switch no longer inhibited electrically.

Still doesn't explain why when you left click and drag on the emergency wing sweep handle to move it, it acts like it didn't seat into the spider detent. Vs. when you use the mouse wheel, it seems like it seats and works as it should.

Like I said, dunno if potentially a bug or a small oversight on the in DCS mechanic of that system or if intended feature. But I can assure you, I am not doing the procedure wrong.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Baz000

[Baz000]

15 hours ago, Golo said:

Do not move the wing sweep handle all the way forward from oversweep, it will not move if you do that, as you shown. I always only bring it to 68° position push it down and press master reset. Never failed to move for me that way.

This was shown to not be the correct way.

2 hours ago, Golo said:

You are supposed to do steps 44 to 46 in manual WS mode, not ememergency WS mode. As you said, throttle WS switches dont work in emergency mode -In DCS they don't but in the real aircraft you have them inhibited electronically not mechanically on the throttle hat and the AUTO position on the wing sweep hat is detented... So, unless you move it out of that position it will always be there regardless of the emergency wing sweep handle being raised or not. Also, pressing the master reset button reverts control back to the wing sweep hat on the throttle... I really don't think you quite understand what I am trying to say regarding this mechanic in DCS.

As for steps after 48 its just not very clearly written and missing some steps I would say (like coming out of oversweep again).

 

Added what I hope will clarify my point.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Baz000

[Golo]

If you have emergency WS handle out of spider detent normal operation via CADC and throttle control (does not mater if you have the switch in auto detent) is bypassed.

Master reset will only revert control to CADC and throttle control if the emergency WS handle is in spider detent which can only be done in 20° wing position.

 

[Baz000]

Yeah and isn't that exactly what I said??

-In DCS they don't but in the real aircraft you have them inhibited electronically not mechanically on the throttle hat and the AUTO position on the wing sweep hat is detented... So, unless you move it out of that position it will always be there regardless of the emergency wing sweep handle being raised or not. Also, pressing the master reset button reverts control back to the wing sweep hat on the throttle... I really don't think you quite understand what I am trying to say regarding this mechanic in DCS.

 

In the real aircraft that switch in the throttle has a detent when set to AUTO or BOMB modes... My point is that when you press the master reset button that reverts control back to the throttle hat switch, removing the inhibiting of it.

This is not the current behavior in DCS, as it seems to completely disregard whatever the pilot last had that switch set to (IE: AUTO) when the emergency wing sweep handle is raised... And once said handle is lowered again the pilot has to re-select that AUTO position... When in actuality that is on a detent on the hat on the throttle and once the master reset button is depressed it resumes what the pilot has selected on the throttle hat when in the positions with detents ( BOMB and AUTO) forward and aft movement is momentary and springs back to center.

This is what I understand about reading about this particular system. Unless I am mistaken, which I'm sure could be a possibility. I'm no SME, I'm just very observant and have an unparalleled attention to detail than most people do. There has to be some reason those particular switches have detent position (I understand it would be to prevent inadvertent un-commanded wing movement) the way those solenoids in those detent switches work would be a constant on - off state much like the 2 way switches on a Hotas Warthog throttle for example. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Baz000

[Baz000]

43 minutes ago, Golo said:

If you have emergency WS handle out of spider detent normal operation via CADC and throttle control (does not mater if you have the switch in auto detent) is bypassed.

Master reset will only revert control to CADC and throttle control if the emergency WS handle is in spider detent which can only be done in 20° wing position.

 

 

On 11/13/2021 at 5:36 AM, Golo said:

Do not move the wing sweep handle all the way forward from oversweep, it will not move if you do that, as you shown. I always only bring it to 68° position push it down and press master reset. Never failed to move for me that way.

 

Sorry, I'm really confused now... Which one is it? Because now you say you can only go into spider detent in 20 degrees position but earlier you say to put in 68 degrees.

[Golo]

1 minute ago, Baz000 said:

Sorry, I'm really confused now... Which one is it? Because now you say you can only go into spider detent in 20 degrees position but earlier you say to put in 68 degrees.

It should be only possible in 20° position, period. But now in game if you do that by dragging the handle to 20° and stowing it like you showed in video it does not move when wings sweep.

I didnt know about the mousewheel, so I did it by dragging only to 68° and stowing it (which should not be possible as I understand it) but the handle moves with wings sweep so Ive been doing it like that. Im sure there is a bug report about it somewhere. Plus there are some other bugs/not implemented things with the emergency WS handle (like for example you can not stow it in the oversweep now, also in a bug report somewhere).

 

 

[Baz000]

Can we agree we'd like our Tomcat to be as authentic to the real aircraft as possible? Yeah? I think we all have the same goals in mind.

Yeah, I only found out about the mouse wheel vs left click by paying attention during the tutorial and also experimenting a bit. I thought that was really interesting!

Edited November 14, 2021 by Baz000

[Golo]

As practical to code, I would say. You probably know the function/operation of the WS handle as described in NATOPS is way more complex than just raise/move/lower. I this is good enough for sim imho now, but there are definitely some bugs/wip things that need looking at.

[Baz000]

Of course, within reason... I mean I would like to be able to follow the process in the various checklists. I'm glad we can have some common ground and share an understanding.

[Gilligan]

On 11/13/2021 at 12:42 PM, Eagle7907 said:

I do the same. Push down the handle around 68 degree sweep. Close the cover. Press master reset. Select Auto sweep.


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how do you push down the handle?

[9thHunt]

On 11/13/2021 at 2:36 AM, Golo said:

Do not move the wing sweep handle all the way forward from oversweep, it will not move if you do that, as you shown. I always only bring it to 68° position push it down and press master reset. Never failed to move for me that way.

It will only re-engage the detent if you go full forward.