Helicopter throttle idle stop solenoid

[Studsmcgee]

Hey guys,

I’m planning out a helicopter collective build using a real Huey collective. 
 

My question is about how to make a physical idle stop detent. The real helicopter uses the button on the collective head to control a solenoid that’s located back on the engine somewhere. 
 

For my purposes I’m going to have a potentiometer at the base that reads the throttle position. Somewhere in that mechanism I’d like to have a linear solenoid of some kind that is activated by the idle stop release button on the collective. 
 

Specifically I need to learn how to wire the solenoid and control it. The buttons and axis will be controlled by a Leo Bodnar joystick board. 
 

I understand solenoids need something like 12volts to be powered. My research has shown I need some kind of extra board or relay to control that voltage. A mosfet board has come up in my reading but that’s about as far as I’ve gotten. 
 

What all do I need to make DCS control the solenoid? For context all my previous projects have been plugging toggle switches into a Leo bodnar board and it all just worked. This is my first time taking on something like this. 
 

Any help or pointers to other similar projects with info are appreciated. 
 

Thanks!

[yogi149]

Hi,

do you really want to do it with a solenoid?
That's what I had thought about for a long time, building my collectives. However, I have not found any suitable electromagnets that allow safe (protection against burning out) and simple control.
Ultimately, I have now built a mechanical solution in the handle that also actuates an electrical contact.
However, the Huey still has to support this function properly.
Here is a video of my current Collective for the UH-1:

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by yogi149

[Studsmcgee]

That’s a neat set up! 
 

I’m not set on using a solenoid. I just don’t know what else would work. 
 

The only difference is I’m working with a real Huey collective I was didn’t want to hack it apart. I’m hoping to use the original mechanism. The real one is a solenoid that interrupts the throttle mechanism way back in the engine somewhere. I was just hoping to replicate that. 
 

I know the dcs Huey doesn’t really work correctly. However I’ve gotten close enough making certain axis ranges act as button presses. It’s not 100% but it’s close enough for me. 
 

That said I’m still interested in how you mechanism works. 

[yogi149]

yes, I know

vor einer Stunde schrieb Studsmcgee:

The real one is a solenoid that interrupts the throttle mechanism way back in the engine somewhere. I was just hoping to replicate that. 

 

did you remove the throttle-bevel-gear? Or do you want to use it?

I made an internal mechanism to block the grip at idle-release position. But this will not fit to the original.

[No1sonuk]

WRT burnout, have you considered a push/pull solenoid?
This would need two drivers - one to set the latch and one to release it.  In either state, the coils are off, and switching requires a brief pulse.
 

[Studsmcgee]

12 hours ago, yogi149 said:

did you remove the throttle-bevel-gear? Or do you want to use it?

 

 

I made an internal mechanism to block the grip at idle-release position. But this will not fit to the original.

The collective isn't actually here yet. Hopefully tomorrow. I was just brainstorming ideas. But I'll probably try to use the original gear if I can find a way.

 

9 hours ago, No1sonuk said:

WRT burnout, have you considered a push/pull solenoid?
This would need two drivers - one to set the latch and one to release it.  In either state, the coils are off, and switching requires a brief pulse.
 

I'm thinking of trying to make something like this work:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z3N21FJ/ref=crt_ewc_title_srh_4?ie=UTF8&smid=A2QDC4SXGIBAA1&th=1

 

I'm pretty confident I can figure out the mechanical set up. What I don't know anything about is the software side. I think I'll end up using DCS BIOS but that's a whole other world I haven't learned yet. That's the part I was really looking for tips on.

[yogi149]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Studsmcgee:

The collective isn't actually here yet.

ok, I converted an original some weeks ago.

The way you can add a throttle sensor depents on how you fix the collective to your rig.

For normal "home" usable rig the original tube is really long, and you should decide to mount the axle under the floor, because an original seat is only about 34 cm high.

After I had already built a functioning idle release function with an additional electrical button for the OH-58D handle, I said goodbye to the solenoid in the handle and also looked for a mechanical solution for the UH-1.
(I know that the Huey only has the electrical function, but there must also be a signal in the simulator for the function of the OH-58D)
So this is my internal solution, which is already being used by a customer. (Now only the function in the Huey has to fit... )

But it only works because I completely rebuild the handle.
Incidentally, the wiring from the original grip can be implemented with a button board, just a bit tricky. I use my distribution board in the grip box, where my throttle axis is also directly connected.

[Studsmcgee]

Thanks for the pictures. Neat mechanism you came up with. 
 

I’m hoping I can use the original idle stop button to trigger the in-game button. And then use a signal from the game through dcs bios to control whatever mechanism I come up with. 
 

What kind of mechanism do you have to keep friction on the collective? Is it hydraulic or just a clamp style on the axis?

[yogi149]

Hi,

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Studsmcgee:

I’m hoping I can use the original idle stop button to trigger the in-game button. And then use a signal from the game through dcs bios to control whatever mechanism I come up with. 

shure you can use the IDLE-RELEASE button for any input board, I would use the button for the mechanism and then pass the signal on. Then you don't need to "construct" an output relay function.
For the throttle grip, I recreated the original thread mimic with a clamping washer against the housing.
For the collective axle I built an adjustable disc brake, which is set to the different grips and can be adjusted to the operation with an adjusting screw.
If your grip has a functioning friction, usually the brake segments have to be reworked a bit, use them. The original handle is so heavy that it is difficult to make a stable attachment.

And on the Collective axis you can then build a sensor relatively well.

 

[Studsmcgee]

49 minutes ago, yogi149 said:

Hi,

shure you can use the IDLE-RELEASE button for any input board, I would use the button for the mechanism and then pass the signal on. Then you don't need to "construct" an output relay function.
For the throttle grip, I recreated the original thread mimic with a clamping washer against the housing.
For the collective axle I built an adjustable disc brake, which is set to the different grips and can be adjusted to the operation with an adjusting screw.
If your grip has a functioning friction, usually the brake segments have to be reworked a bit, use them. The original handle is so heavy that it is difficult to make a stable attachment.

And on the Collective axis you can then build a sensor relatively well.

 

 

 

Thank you!

 

For the disc brake function, what material is inside? Is it just metal on metal? Or is there some kind of friction material or lubricant?

Also did you construct the mount that the original collective is in? Or is that a part out of the real helicopter?

 

[yogi149]

Hi,

for the "disc" I use a glasfiber segment, where some felt pads were pressed on. No lubrication, prevent from dirt.

 

The black part in the lower picture is the original stick, that I didn't want to destroy. The aluminum profiles are from his rig.

Above the axle you can see the friction elements for the collective, they work similar to a car drum brake.

Edited January 19, 2022 by yogi149

[Studsmcgee]

1 hour ago, yogi149 said:

Hi,

for the "disc" I use a glasfiber segment, where some felt pads were pressed on. No lubrication, prevent from dirt.

 

 

The black part in the lower picture is the original stick, that I didn't want to destroy. The aluminum profiles are from his rig.

Above the axle you can see the friction elements for the collective, they work similar to a car drum brake.

 

Ok I see. I will not have the black mount part in your photo. So I will have to make something myself.

On the inside of the "drum brake" part on the original collective is it just metal on metal? Or is there any other material in there?