Broken Spring on Orion Stick Base

[CaptJackG]

Had my roll spring break today. I've been using this Orion for 9 months probably 2/3 hrs daily. I've put in a ticket to try to get some replacement springs (I think). I really like this stick and want to stay with it.

Should we be greasing these springs and if so any suggestions on the best lubricant to use. 

Anyone know of replacement spring that could be acquired in the US.

[MustangSally]

9mths...still under warranty. Go to WW site, login and lodge a ticket

[Aperture]

For anyone who want to source their own springs:

My springs were:

Wire diam: 1.4mm / 0.055 in

Outer diam: 9.4mm / 0.370 in

Total length: 22.42mm / 0.883 in (inside hooks)

Edited August 5, 2023 by Aperture

[Percival]

I bought 2 sticks and 2 hotas, First these disconnections issues and then spring x axis is broken as well.

My friend is getting the same crap. So we actually bought a couple of springs just in case and other 2 guys asked to get a couple as well, so at the end we the custommers share the shipping value.

 

They sell 2 springs x 5U$ and shipping value after you sent them the adress

Edited August 6, 2023 by Percival

[Cobrajet]

On 8/5/2023 at 4:06 AM, Aperture said:

For anyone who want to source their own springs:

My springs were:

Wire diam: 1.4mm / 0.055 in

Outer diam: 9.4mm / 0.370 in

Total length: 22.42mm / 0.883 in (inside hooks)

 

Thank you for posting the spring specs. Any luck on sourcing this spring on Amazon or have a make and part number? I am struggling to match it up. I have broken 4 springs now and shipping cost is expensive directly through Winwing.

[Aperture]

Unfortunately nope. I ordered 2 replacement sets from winwing.

[pirate_smee]

I got the Orion 2 base in July 2023 I use it with max stick extension and the Cam Kit.
On the stick I use the heavy springs on one side and the dampers to the other.
After ~9 months one of my spring broke, the other is deformed in the same region.

My Spring dimension are 1mm wire diameter, outer spring diameter 9.1mm, length of unstressed spring ~27.4mm

This one came close:
https://www.thespringstore.com/catalogsearch/advanced/result/?unit_measure=me&category=es&es_od[from]=0.335&es_od[to]=0.394&es_fl[from]=1.024&es_fl[to]=1.102&es_wd[from]=0.035&es_wd[to]=0.043&form_key=z04Wsv7tb762bNZ3

 

Okay they replace just the one broken spring, they don't send me a second one even if i pay, but I can buy a second cam set

Edited March 22, 2024 by pirate_smee

[Cgjunk2]

On 3/21/2024 at 5:22 AM, pirate_smee said:

I got the Orion 2 base in July 2023 I use it with max stick extension and the Cam Kit.
On the stick I use the heavy springs on one side and the dampers to the other.
After ~9 months one of my spring broke, the other is deformed in the same region.

My Spring dimension are 1mm wire diameter, outer spring diameter 9.1mm, length of unstressed spring ~27.4mm

This one came close:
https://www.thespringstore.com/catalogsearch/advanced/result/?unit_measure=me&category=es&es_od[from]=0.335&es_od[to]=0.394&es_fl[from]=1.024&es_fl[to]=1.102&es_wd[from]=0.035&es_wd[to]=0.043&form_key=z04Wsv7tb762bNZ3

 

Okay they replace just the one broken spring, they don't send me a second one even if i pay, but I can buy a second cam set

 

Yikes, they really like to hold on to their springs lol.  I’m surprised they didn’t send a matching set since the other one is already on death's door.    I suppose they know it will mean more cam kit sales.  
 

My local hardware store had a variety of springs that were the same diameter and un-extended length.  I actually found some slightly heavier springs than winwings heaviest option in their cam kit.  It worked out perfectly for my stick extension.  Nearly three dollars each, so not necessarily cheap, but cheaper than a whole cam kit!

 

edit:  it’s surprising you had problems buying extra springs from them, when others in this thread have been able to.

 

Edited March 23, 2024 by Cgjunk2

[Orko]

Here you are...

[84-Simba]

On 6/14/2024 at 2:52 PM, Orko said:

Here you are...

Are those the same as standard or heavy springs ?

I'd like to find stiffer springs to use with and extension

[Orko]

Standard.

[Gumbie]

Hello Guys so had spring Break on the Orion as well but noticed some people are using the Older Version of the Device,  can anyone got a Source where can get replacements they are not the same as the Older Version of the Orion.

You can see how in the old version the notch in the new version that the springs opening catch's to,  and in the new Version the Notch is removed and that raised Circle is put in place of notch with hole in it, the springs opening sits around the raised circle and then the Screw screws into that circle.

WinWing trying to charge me for them and I refuse to pay because I am still under warranty and they don't want to send me replacement Springs because they already had to replace the entire Guts because they didn't listen the first time when I told them it was a bad Haul Sensor, so they sent me new Board and Wires which I replaced didn't fix the issue which I also offered to ship them the device to fix which they wouldn't do but after a month of back and forth they finally sent me the Haul Sensor and now refuse to send me Springs unless I pay for them because they sent all those other Parts.

WinWing a Good Company to a Point like most others the issue is they think they know more than the people using the devices which as you can see they do not and now hold me responsible for their Fk up and I refuse to pay them for the springs while the device is still under warranty.

Here is Picture of old and new Version of the Orions cams and springs, Also added Pic of Conversation with WinWing and them telling me I had to pay for springs lol Sure I will get right on that for you!

But if anyone knows were I can get the Correct Springs please let me know the Libra Springs wont work they are to Tight and thank you all.

 

null

 

Edited February 10 by Gumbie

[GeoS72]

In early February, one of the springs in my Orion 1 F-18 joystick base broke. This thread was helpful in locating a replacement but the replacement spring is not an exact fit. 

Thanks to @Orko for posting a suitable replacement from Grainger. The part number listed (1NAV4) was out of stock at that time I was looking for a replacement. I then cross-referenced its specs to something in the McMaster-Carr catalog. The closest part crossed to this spring:

Part number: 9044K245
Length: 1"
OD: 0.36"
Wire Diameter: 0.045"
Extended Length @ Maximum Load: 1.43"
Spring Rate: 21.8 lbs./in.
Material: Music-Wire Steel
End Type: Loop
OD Tolerance: -0.004" to 0.004"

McMaster-Carr Musical Wire Spring

I replaced both X- and Y-axis springs in my stick with this substitute spring. Observation of using the new spring:

1. I do NOT use any joystick extensions, I alternate between the F-18 grip & F-16EX grip.
2. The spring rate is weaker than the OEM (WinWing) spring.
3. It is VERY easy to move the stick and it can easily "wiggle" when mounted to a chair and you get up or rock the chair. This ease of movement would increase significantly if you decide to use a joystick extension.
4. The time it takes to return to center is longer and could get you into trouble should you make rapid/violent moves from one extreme axis point to the opposite point.
5. Since the springs are weaker than OEM, it is easy to maintain pressure without fatigue. This is not a bad characteristic especially if you fly helicopters. I frequently fly the AH-64D and rarely use Force Trim, even on long-haul missions. This lower spring rate give me greater control of the helicopter without the stick trying to forcibly return to center.
6. Flying fixed-wing is not too bad; as mentioned in Item 4, the stick is not trying to forcibly recenter itself so you need to be mindful of swinging the stick violently from axis end to the other. This could be dangerous when flying low-level ground work or you have a sharp descent rate; the reaction time will be noticeably slower.
7. Most of these characteristics (good and bad) can be mitigated by thinking ahead of the aircraft and re-conditioning your muscle memory.

 

I eventually reached out to WinWing for OEM replacement springs. I paid $37 for 2 springs (they bang you hard for shipping); 1 pair of springs is like $5 but bang you $32 for overseas shipping. They only ship replacement parts from China and not from their regional distribution centers. So that kinda sucks.

When the replacement springs arrived, I compared them to the originals. They were too long! And they were long by a lot. After a little back-and-forth with them, they realized the wrong spring was sent. So 2 weeks and counting, the replacement of the replacement springs have not shipped. While I enjoy using the WinWing products, their customer service needs to get better.

For the OGs who replaced their springs, how satisfied are you with the substitute springs? Did you find a different solution?

[Blackhawk163]

16 hours ago, GeoS72 said:

In early February, one of the springs in my Orion 1 F-18 joystick base broke. This thread was helpful in locating a replacement but the replacement spring is not an exact fit. 

Thanks to @Orko for posting a suitable replacement from Grainger. The part number listed (1NAV4) was out of stock at that time I was looking for a replacement. I then cross-referenced its specs to something in the McMaster-Carr catalog. The closest part crossed to this spring:

Part number: 9044K245
Length: 1"
OD: 0.36"
Wire Diameter: 0.045"
Extended Length @ Maximum Load: 1.43"
Spring Rate: 21.8 lbs./in.
Material: Music-Wire Steel
End Type: Loop
OD Tolerance: -0.004" to 0.004"

McMaster-Carr Musical Wire Spring

I replaced both X- and Y-axis springs in my stick with this substitute spring. Observation of using the new spring:

1. I do NOT use any joystick extensions, I alternate between the F-18 grip & F-16EX grip.
2. The spring rate is weaker than the OEM (WinWing) spring.
3. It is VERY easy to move the stick and it can easily "wiggle" when mounted to a chair and you get up or rock the chair. This ease of movement would increase significantly if you decide to use a joystick extension.
4. The time it takes to return to center is longer and could get you into trouble should you make rapid/violent moves from one extreme axis point to the opposite point.
5. Since the springs are weaker than OEM, it is easy to maintain pressure without fatigue. This is not a bad characteristic especially if you fly helicopters. I frequently fly the AH-64D and rarely use Force Trim, even on long-haul missions. This lower spring rate give me greater control of the helicopter without the stick trying to forcibly return to center.
6. Flying fixed-wing is not too bad; as mentioned in Item 4, the stick is not trying to forcibly recenter itself so you need to be mindful of swinging the stick violently from axis end to the other. This could be dangerous when flying low-level ground work or you have a sharp descent rate; the reaction time will be noticeably slower.
7. Most of these characteristics (good and bad) can be mitigated by thinking ahead of the aircraft and re-conditioning your muscle memory.

 

I eventually reached out to WinWing for OEM replacement springs. I paid $37 for 2 springs (they bang you hard for shipping); 1 pair of springs is like $5 but bang you $32 for overseas shipping. They only ship replacement parts from China and not from their regional distribution centers. So that kinda sucks.

When the replacement springs arrived, I compared them to the originals. They were too long! And they were long by a lot. After a little back-and-forth with them, they realized the wrong spring was sent. So 2 weeks and counting, the replacement of the replacement springs have not shipped. While I enjoy using the WinWing products, their customer service needs to get better.

For the OGs who replaced their springs, how satisfied are you with the substitute springs? Did you find a different solution?

Yikes for that price you could’ve just paid little more and gotten the cam/damper kit. You would’ve gotten the stock springs and more for backup.  Unless if they’re out of stock wherever you are. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GeoS72]

@Blackhawk163, if you have the Orion 2 joystick then the damping/spring kit should fit without issue. However, I have the Orion 1 joystick so I doubt the same damping kit would apply without any compatibility issues. Also note, if you spend $52 for the damping kit, that excludes shipping fees. I don't know if shipping fees are applied during checkout.

[Blackhawk163]

19 hours ago, GeoS72 said:

@Blackhawk163, if you have the Orion 2 joystick then the damping/spring kit should fit without issue. However, I have the Orion 1 joystick so I doubt the same damping kit would apply without any compatibility issues. Also note, if you spend $52 for the damping kit, that excludes shipping fees. I don't know if shipping fees are applied during checkout.

My mistake, I missed the Orion 1 part of your post. 

[GeoS72]

Roger. WinWing confirmed that the Orion 2 damper/spring kit will not fit in the Orion 1 base.