Mission 5

[Lt_Jaeger]

I had huge problems with Mission 5. I had to start it like 5 times, after the initial try, where everything worked, but I got a CTD (not campaign related), before all aircraft got off the carrier. I know it's an AI thing, but you might think about switching parking between Pontiac 2-1 and 2-2. Starting to taxi, that stupid AI ran into me, subsequently got damaged and RTB right after takeoff. The other times, there was always AI problems, like failed to launch or even on AI landing while launch was still in progress. Big time mess. I don't know if there are ways to rectify some of this by mission design.

 

For the mission, I liked it. It was hard for me to get SA, even so I did put a Waypoint (Def Point) over the Bullseye before launch which helped immensely to figure out who was where and shooting at what, but I'm not sure I engaged the right targets.

Very challenging and enjoyable, I will do this mission for sure again.

 

[Sandman Simulations]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:38 PM, Lt_Jaeger said:

I had huge problems with Mission 5. I had to start it like 5 times, after the initial try, where everything worked, but I got a CTD (not campaign related), before all aircraft got off the carrier. I know it's an AI thing, but you might think about switching parking between Pontiac 2-1 and 2-2. Starting to taxi, that stupid AI ran into me, subsequently got damaged and RTB right after takeoff. The other times, there was always AI problems, like failed to launch or even on AI landing while launch was still in progress. Big time mess. I don't know if there are ways to rectify some of this by mission design.

 

For the mission, I liked it. It was hard for me to get SA, even so I did put a Waypoint (Def Point) over the Bullseye before launch which helped immensely to figure out who was where and shooting at what, but I'm not sure I engaged the right targets.

Very challenging and enjoyable, I will do this mission for sure again.

 

Damn but thanks for telling. Unfortunately if I change starting position of player it will change some AI starting positions too. I found current configuration most reliable to get the whole squadron launched. It's again balancing for playability and realism. Only way to be sure AI won't mess things up is to set AI start from air but it's not good for immersion. I took risk of constantly changing AI behavior in couple of missions where there are multiple flights participating same mission. I really don't like empty deck as you may have noticed.

About SA. As you said in Mission 4 feedback you hate using F10 map as it is not realistic to see units on map. I agree it's far from realism. There is also some compromise made with that. In some missions (like mission 4 boats) there are units that are very difficult to find. Unfortunately it's quite difficult to get any dynamic bearing information for the player so I have set those units visible on F10 map. In real life there could be a possibility to get better SA by asking certain information from AWACS or like asking your wingman where the hell he is. At the moment there is very limited options for this. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Sandman Simulations

[Lt_Jaeger]

I must admit, that is what I like about the campaign. There is stuff going on. Lots of movement on deck, some in the stack, waiting for the launch phase to be completed, traffic left and right, all very immersiv but sadly prone to DCSisms and havoc wreaking AIs 

[JupiterJoe]

Mission 5 just froze-up for me.  Here's the log:

dcs.log

EDIT: Worked okay on second attempt.

Edited May 15, 2022 by JupiterJoe

[Sandman Simulations]

18 hours ago, JupiterJoe said:

Mission 5 just froze-up for me.  Here's the log:

dcs.log 102.73 kB · 1 download

EDIT: Worked okay on second attempt.

 

Good you made it. In what situtation freezing happened?

[JupiterJoe]

Draconus has suggested I try adjusting my Windows 11 Page File (Virtual Memory).  Perhaps the spawning in of a large number of units at once causes my system to have a heart-attack. 

 

The freeze on my first attempt at mission 5 occurred as I (without giving spoilers away) approached Waypoint 3.  As I say, the second attempt at the mission went okay.  I will take a closer look at my system.  Thanks for your help Sandman.

[Agim]

Hi, I have a problem with mission 5. Some planes do not take off and that is probably the reason why there is no Push command from WP1. It seems that one of Hornet always stuck in front of some parked planes. I think there is some general Spawn problem when so many planes are order to take off.

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Agim

[Sandman Simulations]

4 hours ago, Agim said:

Hi, I have a problem with mission 5. Some planes do not take off and that is probably the reason why there is no Push command from WP1. It seems that one of Hornet always stuck in front of some parked planes. I think there is some general Spawn problem when so many planes are order to take off.

 

 

Hi,

Thank you for your feedback. 

#RaisedByWolves had same kind of problem with mission two. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/299771-bugs-issues/?do=findComment&comment=5080492. In mission two I was able to make it happen once. At least it was possible to freeze some AI units from taxiing if player makes very fast start up and immediately starts taxiing. I will take a look for mission 5 tomorrow.

It was quite a work to find precise start up timing to make those missions work where there are multiple planes departing. Unfortunately, it seems that even if there is no published change in startup or taxi algorithms in update change log, some little change in AI behavior may broke it. Only way to be sure it works after update is to spawn player on empty deck. I don't like that option.

 

[Agim]

OK, I have checked some other forums, it seems to be DCS core problem with triggers and spawning logic. It means we have to wait for a new DCS update (hopefully today).

[Sandman Simulations]

2 hours ago, Agim said:

OK, I have checked some other forums, it seems to be DCS core problem with triggers and spawning logic. It means we have to wait for a new DCS update (hopefully today).

You are right there has been lost of trigger / holding problems after latest update. And in mission 5 it seems to be just what you said. Two Hornets in front of others have no start up delay and I can't say why in h**l they are not taxiing. What is strange it seems that my wingman too doesn't taxi after me. It shouldn't be anyhow dependent about Hornets. 

But I will continue searching cause for this problem and I really hope it will work after next update. At the moment mission is broken. For some reason at least mission 7 is working even if there is even more departures and start up delay things.

[Sandman Simulations]

9 hours ago, Agim said:

OK, I have checked some other forums, it seems to be DCS core problem with triggers and spawning logic. It means we have to wait for a new DCS update (hopefully today).

After 15 tests I finally found what is causing the problem. Still don't understand why. It might be related to other problems which appeared after latest update.

For unknown reason COLT 2 flight (on catapult at mission start) didn't fly to CAP position as it has done without problems for 6 months now. After reaching 4000 feet they turned back to CASE III recovery causing departures to freeze. I have now solution for this problem but it might be my patch won't make it to next update. On the other hand it is possible next update will solve this problem without my patch.

[Agim]

Perhaps we will see today. Thank you for your effort. It is great to see that author still take care about the campaign.

[Sandman Simulations]

7 hours ago, Agim said:

Perhaps we will see today. Thank you for your effort. It is great to see that author still take care about the campaign.

No luck with update today.

I submitted the patch to ED yesterday but deadline for todays update was some days ago so we must wait until next one. Hope ED doesn't change anything else for next one

[gghelli]

So what's the situation with the patch? I've been trying mission 5 several times now: my wingman never launches and the push from overlord never comes. 

[Sandman Simulations]

50 minutes ago, gghelli said:

So what's the situation with the patch? I've been trying mission 5 several times now: my wingman never launches and the push from overlord never comes. 

Hi,

Unfortunately, official DLC update is a slow process because it is tied to DCS updates. I submitted the patch to ED 16th of November immediately I found the fix but it of course missed DCS update 17th of November (deadline was few days before). I hope next update will be out soon.

[UN9249]

On 11/15/2022 at 3:07 PM, Agim said:

Hi, I have a problem with mission 5. Some planes do not take off and that is probably the reason why there is no Push command from WP1. It seems that one of Hornet always stuck in front of some parked planes. I think there is some general Spawn problem when so many planes are order to take off.

 

 

i reach mission 5. Same here. was circling wp1 until fuel low and rtb. than i found out 2 f/a18 stock on a deck.

[Sandman Simulations]

23 hours ago, UN9249 said:

i reach mission 5. Same here. was circling wp1 until fuel low and rtb. than i found out 2 f/a18 stock on a deck.

Thanks for your notice. I will check it out. This sounds like different problem than the one above

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Sandman Simulations

[Sandman Simulations]

On 1/15/2023 at 7:18 PM, UN9249 said:

i reach mission 5. Same here. was circling wp1 until fuel low and rtb. than i found out 2 f/a18 stock on a deck.

This is tough one. 

1) I did 15 tests. 2 times Enfield 1 flight did not taxi at all. They should do it about 5 minutes from mission start. I haven't been able to find reason for that behavior and it seems random. Usually it's not random but there is some variables that by common sense should have nothing to do with each other and finding the connection is just difficult. 

2) There is another problem I found: If player taxies to catapult before Enfield 1 (you have to do a very fast start up to do it) they will taxi to cat after you but get stuck on cat. Of course that is not normal AI behavior and I think this is new one. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about this kind of AI problem. If I do all normal procedures by checklist and they have time to taxi before me everything should work. Unless problem 1 activates of course

So. How to fix those two problems? I do not have solution for now but I continue looking for it. Because it is very frustrating to wait at rendezvous just to find out that AI can't start I suggest to look for Enfield 1 flight (those bastards in red circle in picture below) and If they have not started taxiing between 0410-0412 o'clock they won't do it at all and you just have to try again. I'm very sorry about this kind of problem and that I can't fix it at least for now.

null

Edited January 16, 2023 by Sandman Simulations

[UN9249]

12 hours ago, Sandman Simulations said:

...If they have not started taxiing between 0410-0412 o'clock they won't do it at all and you just have to try again. I'm very sorry about this kind of problem and that I can't fix it at least for now.

 

HI again. Thank you for explanation. I understand thats a supercarrier issue, not yours. i just wanted to know how to make them start. So i just would wait untill they take off 0410-0412 min. got it))) thank you again for your support!

Edited January 17, 2023 by UN9249

[Kiseki_Yu]

2023/1/17 AM3点07分，Sandman Simulations说：

This is tough one. 

1) I did 15 tests. 2 times Enfield 1 flight did not taxi at all. They should do it about 5 minutes from mission start. I haven't been able to find reason for that behavior and it seems random. Usually it's not random but there is some variables that by common sense should have nothing to do with each other and finding the connection is just difficult. 

2) There is another problem I found: If player taxies to catapult before Enfield 1 (you have to do a very fast start up to do it) they will taxi to cat after you but get stuck on cat. Of course that is not normal AI behavior and I think this is new one. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about this kind of AI problem. If I do all normal procedures by checklist and they have time to taxi before me everything should work. Unless problem 1 activates of course

So. How to fix those two problems? I do not have solution for now but I continue looking for it. Because it is very frustrating to wait at rendezvous just to find out that AI can't start I suggest to look for Enfield 1 flight (those bastards in red circle in picture below) and If they have not started taxiing between 0410-0412 o'clock they won't do it at all and you just have to try again. I'm very sorry about this kind of problem and that I can't fix it at least for now.

null

 

The same problem happened to me. I went to Waypoint 1 but no further order came.

[Sandman Simulations]

1 hour ago, Kiseki_Yu said:

The same problem happened to me. I went to Waypoint 1 but no further order came.

Hi again,

Did you notice was it enfield 1 flight mentioned above who didn't launch or something different?

[Luka CMF]

I managed to launch almost last(2 more pairs launched after me). I pressed F2 and position the view above the carrier deck and accelerated time until Enfield 1 started moving and then I started up and aligned INS. Got to catapult, launched and randevu with everyone else... 

[Sandman Simulations]

6 hours ago, Luka CMF said:

I managed to launch almost last(2 more pairs launched after me). I pressed F2 and position the view above the carrier deck and accelerated time until Enfield 1 started moving and then I started up and aligned INS. Got to catapult, launched and randevu with everyone else... 

Lots of things have changed eith last updates. Have you still encountered this problem?

[Luka CMF]

On 11/2/2023 at 4:33 AM, Sandman Simulations said:

Lots of things have changed eith last updates. Have you still encountered this problem?

I did it like that as when I did start playing the campaign again few weeks ago on the first run of that mission it looked like it's going to repeat the original bug, so I just restarted the mission and did the described to make sure I don't waste time that I have reserved for DCS

[Sandman Simulations]

4 minutes ago, Luka CMF said:

I did it like that as when I did start playing the campaign again few weeks ago on the first run of that mission it looked like it's going to repeat the original bug, so I just restarted the mission and did the described to make sure I don't waste time that I have reserved for DCS

Very annoying bug. I still don't know what is that random thing causing this to happen sometimes but not always.

Only dead proof way to avoid this is not to set so many AI aircraft on the deck at mission start. That of course breaks the illusion of being part of large scale air operation.