Couple of questions related to A-A combat in JF-17

[Aries101]

Hello all.

As I am newbie into A-A combat in general, I wanted to ask few questions.

1) Is there Key I could map Fast and simple switch for Weapons when I am in dogfight like PL-5EII/SD-10/GUN? I would love to have that on fast dial.

2) In my test fight I spawned one Mig 21 with only guns (newbie lol) but I had big problems locking it with radar in TWS mode even when he was infront of me.

3) That was weird, but maybe not. As i started to get nervous, I fired one LD-10 while mig was NOT locked but I pointed my plane directly into him and missle emediately locked on and managed to shot it down. Kinda weird, but I presume it entered "mad dog" mode?

4) Do you use in jeff dogfight and BVR any other mode apart from TWS? From what i managed to find arround TWS is usualy main RDR of choice for most Jeff pilots.

Thank you for help

 

 

[Mike_Romeo]

23 minutes ago, Aries101 said:

1) Is there Key I could map Fast and simple switch for Weapons when I am in dogfight like PL-5EII/SD-10/GUN? I would love to have that on fast dial.

S8: Change weapons to switch between all your weapons. Gun can only be activated via the MFD buttons.

23 minutes ago, Aries101 said:

2) In my test fight I spawned one Mig 21 with only guns (newbie lol) but I had big problems locking it with radar in TWS mode even when he was infront of me.

Sure that your radar was unfreezed ?

23 minutes ago, Aries101 said:

3) That was weird, but maybe not. As i started to get nervous, I fired one LD-10 while mig was NOT locked but I pointed my plane directly into him and missle emediately locked on and managed to shot it down. Kinda weird, but I presume it entered "mad dog" mode?

The LD-10 is the anti radar missile of the jeff that is normaly used against SAM sites. However, I think it picked up the radar of the MiG-21 and engaged it. The SD-10 should have behaved similiar. If you fire a Fox 3 missile (Missile with it own radar) without a target lock, it will activate its radar instantly and engage the first object it sees (Maddog launch)

24 minutes ago, Aries101 said:

4) Do you use in jeff dogfight and BVR any other mode apart from TWS?

Actually no but I higly recommend you to read the Chucksguide for the JF-17. It countains 99% of every Jeff answer you will ever have. https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-dcs-jf-17-thunder/

[Aries101]

Thank you. Just one correction. in question 3) I  meant to say SD-10 not LD-10, my bad. And it is also good to know I can do that in a pinch if plane is infront of me.

 

As for question 2) Freezed radar? It was on and not silent, so i am noto sure.. Ill get back to chuck guide on radar to get better at it. Maybe I figure out where I made mistake.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Aries101

[Dr_Pavelheer]

In a pinch it's better to use dogfight mode and switch to SD-10 with the hotas button, gives you better off bore capability and reduces the chance of missile going after friendly

[Napillo]

21 hours ago, Aries101 said:

Do you use in jeff dogfight and BVR any other mode apart from TWS?

I use RWS and VS quite a bit, it gives me a better picture of the area. VS can pick up targets from very far away, so when I don't know where the enemy is, but have a general idea, I at least get a bearing on them. RWS also has a slightly longer range, and TWS is only for either hot or cold but not both. RWS is great when you don't know if the enemy is going towards you or away from you. You can then lock and get their vector, or rely on the datalink to handle that for you. Also, RWS can scan a larger section of the sky than the TWS can - even if you increase the horizontal width of TWS, you see it switches to less bars, because your radar needs to hit those targets pretty quickly to track them. RWS is more forgiving. Also, in situations where there are a lot of targets (normally on GS) RWS will put up bricks where TWS will give you a mix of bricks and triangles because you're exceeding the maximum number of TWS tracks.

Once I have a target, if I am not trying to DTT, I will STT lock before firing a missile, especially in close range (<20nm) because I don't want to lose lock. Sometimes I'll STT lock someone from far away just because I want their RWR to annoy them, it's a psychological warfare thing. If I am 40nm - 50nm away, then a bugged contact flying high, I'll pitch up 10 degrees, set the missile target size on small, and fire, that lofts the missile, so I can fire from beyond the maximum range and still hit. It also comes down on them, so maybe the missile can avoid activating an RWR on certain aircraft, because it'll be in their blind spot. The missile going active 2nm away from the target means if their RWR picks up the missile, they'll only have a few seconds to respond anyway. I'll put the missile target size to large if I am just firing a missile to make the enemy go defensive. 

I normally just take the single middle 800l tank, and two SD-10 (one on each wing) - I do this because that's the most common configuration seen on the real JF-17, and it will help you go faster, meaning your missiles will be a lot more lethal. I'll release the missiles at mach 1.2, or as close to it as I can get. By taking just one tank, my drag is reduced, meaning more speed, and since it's a small tank, I can use it to just get up to altitude and drop it quick, so I'm faster. If I would take two, I'd have them attached longer, more drag, and be slower, though it's great to have extra if I'm going to be flying low over long distances. I once did a 300nm strike with just the built-in fuel tanks, and landed with 1200lb fuel. A lot of the time, a single tank is all you need, though, if you have a TGP on the middle, it makes sense to bring the two tanks, but I never take the 1100 ones because I've never needed that much fuel - your air will run out before you run out of fuel with the dual 1100 drop tanks config. Not to mention, the 1100 tanks need you to be a lot slower to drop them. I've been a lot more successful taking just two SD-10 vs taking 4, because I fire them only when I have a very good chance of getting a kill, I can go faster, and when I launch my last missile, I immediately head home. I can avoid missiles chasing me because i'm faster, and since I am not in the sortie for a long time, I have less chance of dying.

[Napillo]

21 hours ago, Aries101 said:

1) Is there Key I could map Fast and simple switch for Weapons when I am in dogfight like PL-5EII/SD-10/GUN? I would love to have that on fast dial.

S1_FORWARD puts you into dogfight mode and switches you to PL-5EII. I recommend once you are in the air, go into dogfight mode to ready your PL-5EII and unlock the seeker (S2_PRESS). 

[Aries101]

i Just tried to engage MiG-21 in RWS mode, but my T5 press lock target just would not work. Isnt that correct button to lock target in radar?

[AeriaGloria]

3 hours ago, Aries101 said:

i Just tried to engage MiG-21 in RWS mode, but my T5 press lock target just would not work. Isnt that correct button to lock target in radar?

Yes, if you are close enough, and if the TDC cursor was over the radar track 

[Napillo]

3 hours ago, Aries101 said:

i Just tried to engage MiG-21 in RWS mode, but my T5 press lock target just would not work.

depends on how far it is, but mig-21 has an RCS of 3, compared to for example an F-16 which has an RCS of 5. The larger it is, the farther you can lock it from, and the reverse is true as well i.e. the smaller it is the harder it is to lock.

[Aries101]

AH cool, an added challenge then I guess

[Dr_Pavelheer]

How far away were you? Was ground in the background of your target?

In DCS just because you can see the target on your radar doesn't necessarily mean you can get a lock, in that case you need to get a bit closer an try again

[Napillo]

Also, if it's raining. 

[Aries101]

Thank you. Also, I know it is not A-A related but it is Jeff related so I did not wanted to open up another thread. 

Do you know maybe is there any key to reset target market in targeting pod (WMD7) directly to font center, like and sort of reset?

 

[AeriaGloria]

40 minutes ago, Aries101 said:

Thank you. Also, I know it is not A-A related but it is Jeff related so I did not wanted to open up another thread. 

Do you know maybe is there any key to reset target market in targeting pod (WMD7) directly to font center, like and sort of reset?

 

Switch mode from slave to snowplow. It’s on top row of buttons, marked SLV or SP. if it’s already in SP. just switch it twice 

[Cantankerous]

Hmnn..

 

OK I was flying on the marianas map trying to lock up an  AI F15c, and could not pick him up at all on the radar . I was using RWS and TWS . We were approaching head on and  he gets a aim120b off before I can even pick him up on radar.  Clean weather conditions over the sea about 7000 feet.

 

Is this me or the radar ?? seems very poor performance...  

Ill try using VS to pick him up next time

[Mike_Romeo]

3 minutes ago, Cantankerous said:

Is this me or the radar ??

Most likely you.

[AeriaGloria]

7 hours ago, Cantankerous said:

Hmnn..

 

OK I was flying on the marianas map trying to lock up an  AI F15c, and could not pick him up at all on the radar . I was using RWS and TWS . We were approaching head on and  he gets a aim120b off before I can even pick him up on radar.  Clean weather conditions over the sea about 7000 feet.

 

Is this me or the radar ?? seems very poor performance...  

Ill try using VS to pick him up next time

Is target altitude within range of altitudes your radar covers at the range of target? You can double check this with data link 

Default should be Hi PRF which should be best for head on. If target is lower then you you will have a 20% range penalty. 
 

VS will help you see target but won’t lock, you can only lock a target in RWS/TWS. To see target range without radar contact use data link (which also tells you altitude to search for with radar elevation control) and jammer KG-600 will also range RWR contacts for airplanes after 5 seconds. Don’t use it as a crutch, but will help if you don’t have datalink

 

Honestly, it’s impossible to tell what your issue is without a track or recording. Have you watched other JF-17 videos or read chucks guide to see how others find an air target? 

[Cantankerous]

Yes I have seen the radar videos . In the example I have give I was co altitude.

Ill try some more and exreiment with radar modes .

Thanks for the reply, Aeria Gloria

 

C