WIP or Bugs or IRL features?

[bingbean]

1.The auto targeting mode doesn't work for S24B , S13-OF rockets and 30mm grenade launcher. I really don't think this is real live dehavior. I would expect aim assistance especially for those heavy rockets.

2.I know the analog "GPS" navigation Map is simplified in game compared real life. I meen the auto changing map while zoom in/out doesn't work in real live probably. I am O.K with this, but it should work somehow consistently. The problem is when the position indicator goes of the way a little bit , and i move the indicator by the wheels under map to the correct position over some waypoint, then the zoom in and zoom out map is no more synchronized. That mean in zoom in map the indicator is over the waypoint, but if i zoom out the map, the indicator is far away from the waypoint. Or vice versa. I think the problem is caused by the fact that the difference in the X position and the Y position when using the wheels under the map is transmitted to the zoomed in and out of the map the same, which is wrong. If is hard to do the calculation correctly, then it would help it the wheels will influence only position indicator on selected map. So I could fix the location individually on the zoomed in map and then on the zoomed out map.
This problem was already reported quite some time ago. Here I found a video showing it:

Video na YouTube™: Bug report 1 - DCS World

3. This isn't exactly a bug, more of a feature request.
Hind need really much of rudder correction while takeoff or landing. Sometimes i have to full press the right pedal to reduce spinning to left. Well, what's the problem. I want to use and i am using Trim for rudder. While i slowing down to landing and reduce the collective the Hind start to spin to the right, so i press left pedal to reduce the spin. Now i use trim button so my logical rudder axis is 30% left, but my physical rudder pedal are in center 0%. When the helicopter slowing down under 100 km/h it start lose height to much so i have to increase collective what will cause the helicopter start spin to the left. To reduce this spin i need more as 80% right rudder input , but i don't have 80% at this moment, because even if my physical rudder pedal are 100% right , the logical rudder axis is only 70% to right , because of previous 30% Trim to left. Before I can react, the helicopter spins uncontrollably to the left and falls to the ground. So my request is for some kind of auto trim reset, when the physical axis is on 100%.

Edited August 10, 2022 by bingbean

[AeriaGloria]

1. Absolutely real life behavior. Those weapons were added as Adfghansitan war modifications to be able to have more stand off capability. They were added ad-hoc. Believe it or not the Mi-24 itself did not have auto CCIP mode for any S-8 variant until the Chechnya war……….. it takes a while to update these analog computers…. And possibly, depending on how realistic you want to be, it shouldn’t even have auto CCIP for S-8OFP2. this is confirmed in the real life manual, which says manual aiming is needed for S-13, but I have not found a source for S-24, but since it was part of the same ad-hoc Afghan modifications, I don’t see why it would be different. 

 

2. maybe a bug 

3. this is why I hate rudder trim 

Edited August 10, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[Dragon1-1]

9 hours ago, bingbean said:

2.I know the analog "GPS" navigation Map is simplified in game compared real life. I meen the auto changing map while zoom in/out doesn't work in real live probably. I am O.K with this, but it should work somehow consistently. The problem is when the position indicator goes of the way a little bit , and i move the indicator by the wheels under map to the correct position over some waypoint, then the zoom in and zoom out map is no more synchronized. That mean in zoom in map the indicator is over the waypoint, but if i zoom out the map, the indicator is far away from the waypoint. Or vice versa. I think the problem is caused by the fact that the difference in the X position and the Y position when using the wheels under the map is transmitted to the zoomed in and out of the map the same, which is wrong. If is hard to do the calculation correctly, then it would help it the wheels will influence only position indicator on selected map. So I could fix the location individually on the zoomed in map and then on the zoomed out map.
This problem was already reported quite some time ago. Here I found a video showing it:

Note, IRL, the system isn't meant to be used like a modern moving map. In reality, you make a rectangular map piece with your route, and you manually put the indicator on your position. If you want to change map scale, or move to a different spot, you have to take the old map out, put the new one in, and then reset the pointer to show your position. ED has made it vastly more convenient than the real thing, in that changing map squares is automatic and instant.

I imagine that IRL, you'd pick one map scale and stick with it. Same for the rest, you'd just make a square showing the area you'll be flying in, and leave it alone from that point on. Or, if you have a tricky part to fly, you'd make a map of that and either stick it there and set the instrument when you get there, or use a bigger map when enroute to target and swap maps in flight, then reset the pointer. You'd want to minimize the number of swaps when possible, to avoid fumbling with too many map pieces.

[admiki]

18 hours ago, bingbean said:

3. This isn't exactly a bug, more of a feature request.
Hind need really much of rudder correction while takeoff or landing. Sometimes i have to full press the right pedal to reduce spinning to left. Well, what's the problem. I want to use and i am using Trim for rudder. While i slowing down to landing and reduce the collective the Hind start to spin to the right, so i press left pedal to reduce the spin. Now i use trim button so my logical rudder axis is 30% left, but my physical rudder pedal are in center 0%. When the helicopter slowing down under 100 km/h it start lose height to much so i have to increase collective what will cause the helicopter start spin to the left. To reduce this spin i need more as 80% right rudder input , but i don't have 80% at this moment, because even if my physical rudder pedal are 100% right , the logical rudder axis is only 70% to right , because of previous 30% Trim to left. Before I can react, the helicopter spins uncontrollably to the left and falls to the ground. So my request is for some kind of auto trim reset, when the physical axis is on 100%.

Already answered on previous topics, so I'll stick to this one:

trim often.

Nothing more, nothing less. This is different system, but listen how many clicks there are

 

[bingbean]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:23 AM, AeriaGloria said:

1. Absolutely real life behavior. Those weapons were added as Adfghansitan war modifications to be able to have more stand off capability. They were added ad-hoc. Believe it or not the Mi-24 itself did not have auto CCIP mode for any S-8 variant until the Chechnya war……….. it takes a while to update these analog computers…. And possibly, depending on how realistic you want to be, it shouldn’t even have auto CCIP for S-8OFP2. this is confirmed in the real life manual, which says manual aiming is needed for S-13, but I have not found a source for S-24, but since it was part of the same ad-hoc Afghan modifications, I don’t see why it would be different. 

O.K that interesting.

I saw some videos where Hind fly really low then pitch up and send all missile up to the air. When a saw that i thought what a waste of ammo. Now it makes more sense use rockets as kind of "carpet bombing" if they can precise aim anyway.

 

[admiki]

 

On 8/14/2022 at 1:40 PM, bingbean said:

O.K that interesting.

I saw some videos where Hind fly really low then pitch up and send all missile up to the air. When a saw that i thought what a waste of ammo. Now it makes more sense use rockets as kind of "carpet bombing" if they can precise aim anyway.

 

They can't, it's more of terror tactics than anything else. 

Simple trygonometry will give you that for every degree of lateral movement at range of 6000 (just random number) impact point will move a bit over 100m. I wonder how much movement is there during pitch up?

[AeriaGloria]

11 hours ago, admiki said:

 

They can't, it's more of terror tactics than anything else. 

Simple trygonometry will give you that for every degree of lateral movement at range of 6000 (just random number) impact point will move a bit over 100m. I wonder how much movement is there during pitch up?

The tables are for 10 and 20 or 30 degrees. This has been posted on the Russian forums before. There is also one for S-5

Edited August 16, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[admiki]

5 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

The tables are for 10 and 20 or 30 degrees. This has been posted on the Russian forums before. There is also one for S-5

 

I was talking about azimuth change, not elevation

[Dragon1-1]

18 hours ago, admiki said:

They can't, it's more of terror tactics than anything else. 

Also known as suppressive fire.  It's used for suppressing enemy infantry and softskin groups at long range, not to actually kill anything. Kind of like a flying artillery barrage. Hitting stuff is an optional extra, the point is to force the infantry into cover so your own guys can run up to them and shoot them, or pull back without being shot at.

[bingbean]

I won't post the direct link to the videos here because they are too recent and will probably be removed anyway. If you will search MI-24 attack in youtube shorts you should find some. The pitch up before shooting is pretty huge 30-40° what i saw.

Why is in the manual table in post form Gloria "pitch-up" insted of  "pitch-down"? Wrong translation on my side or they side? I found similar table and tutorial how to aim manually in chuck's guide , but do it is so hard, because Hind accelerate so fast. 

[admiki]

1 hour ago, bingbean said:

I won't post the direct link to the videos here because they are too recent and will probably be removed anyway. If you will search MI-24 attack in youtube shorts you should find some. The pitch up before shooting is pretty huge 30-40° what i saw.

Why is in the manual table in post form Gloria "pitch-up" insted of  "pitch-down"? Wrong translation on my side or they side? I found similar table and tutorial how to aim manually in chuck's guide , but do it is so hard, because Hind accelerate so fast. 

Because you pitch your nose up to shoot, pitching down would just put those rockets right in front of you

[bingbean]

 

3 hours ago, admiki said:

Because you pitch your nose up to shoot, pitching down would just put those rockets right in front of you

Hmm what? I am totally confused now. How you can aim while pitch-up when the crosshair point somewhere to the sky.

[horstweihrauch]

You Loft the rockets like Hail Mary 

[bingbean]

O.K. i see now. It is different table what i was saw and tried to use in chuck's guide.  This table say , if you fly 50 hight at speed 200km/h IAS and launch rockets in 20° pitch-up , the rockets fell down somewhere 6750m far away. Yes now it make sense.

[Dragon1-1]

The way you aim in this method is that you find a landmark that is at the distance from the target given in the table, fly towards it on a compass heading that matches the target, and when you overfly it, pull up and shoot. If you empty the pods, you have a good chance that at least some of the rockets will end up in the target's general area. S-8s are cheap, so it can be done as many times as logistics will allow, and it's a very safe attack profile.

[admiki]

Just like Dragon explained. Same thing is done for using illumination rockets to light target area either for yourself or another helicopter.

[AeriaGloria]

12 hours ago, bingbean said:

I won't post the direct link to the videos here because they are too recent and will probably be removed anyway. If you will search MI-24 attack in youtube shorts you should find some. The pitch up before shooting is pretty huge 30-40° what i saw.

Why is in the manual table in post form Gloria "pitch-up" insted of  "pitch-down"? Wrong translation on my side or they side? I found similar table and tutorial how to aim manually in chuck's guide , but do it is so hard, because Hind accelerate so fast. 

It depends which tables you mean. I believe Chuck shows both tables, level flight and diving. Diving is meant to be, for example for 10 degrees, launch at 180 kmh. If you have the source and read around the full procedure is to fly at a specific attitude, fly until the target is 10 degrees below your nose, then pitch down and fire in 3-4 seconds. You will accelerate about 10 kmh per second, and should try to hit 9-10 m/s descent for most accurate shot. 
 

I only use the 10 degree dive tables becuase the radar altimeter has errors beyond 15 degrees, but I find the level rocket tables more useful anyways. 
 

So if the chucks guide screenshot, the lower table is the dive one. Start at 150 kmh and the altitude for dive at 150 kmh and your chosen dive angle, so for example a 10 degree dive with 2,000m launching angle, fly at 390m. The 5% means dive at a speed of 5 degrees per second when diving, and you have 4s to fire before you are too fast, try to lower collective so you are as 9-10 m/s descent. I often start a little higher and lower then 150 kmh to give me extra time, but becuase of the acceleration, I find the level shooting tables much more accurate.