Best Radar mode for BVR ( PvP): SAM or TWS?

[cmbaviator]

Hello Guys,

 

I was wondering which is the best mode for BVR espcially in PvP like 4YA and GS PvP server where there is lots of players.

 

I have a hardtime knowing the difference between SAM and TWS mode, looks pretty similar except maybe the number of BARs and Azimut scanning,

 

I know that in the F16, i was told that TWS would be only usefull for engaging formation foes, ie when you want to bugg and engage more than 3 foes at once, below that number, i was told to use RWS with same mode.

Is it the same with the Jeff ?

[Th3ChosenOn3]

RWS, 30 Degrees Azimuth, 4/2 BAR is currently the best for BVR from my experience.

[Napillo]

STT is the best IMHO. Makes the pilot get that annoying RWR warning, maybe they shut it off, turn it down, or maybe they get annoyed, either way, you can hold a lock better than you can hold a bug and you get the highest possible update rate on a target.

[cmbaviator]

8 hours ago, Napillo said:

STT is the best IMHO. Makes the pilot get that annoying RWR warning, maybe they shut it off, turn it down, or maybe they get annoyed, either way, you can hold a lock better than you can hold a bug and you get the highest possible update rate on a target.

sure thing but when you launch a missile he would be warned immedialtely and could defeat the missile with less trouble. I can only see my self using STT if a buddy is being chase by a foe and would lock him in STT and launch a missile so that he would let my buddy go and defensive

[Napillo]

8 hours ago, cmbaviator said:

when you launch a missile he would be warned immedialtely

no, the missile doesn't go active immediately. You want him to get used to that 'hard locked' sound so much they ignore it, keep them STT locked for a long time. They'll still get the beeping when the missile goes active, but it doesn't happen straight off the rails.

 

[AeriaGloria]

I prefer default TWS 25 degree scan. In RWS it’s very hard to track two targets at once becuase the scan zone automatically reduces the closer you get. Also the scan times of TWS are optimized to give a fox 3 missile fast updates, while in RWS you can make it so the fox 3 missile gets very few updates. 

RWS/SAM is far more powerful in 1 vs 1, but TWS is the best IMO for DTT 

Also, in TWS the bars are farther apart. This means that for the same bars in TWS or RWS, that TWS will have a larger vertical FOV, meaning you can have greater vertical separation of targets while still firing on two. 
 

In RWS you are free to use any combo of bars and azimuth, but in TWS you have only three presets, which I find helpful becuase they are already optimized for fox 3 fighting and I can think less and focus on getting a good shot and other radar properties like PRF 

Here are numbers comparing the FOV vertically of RWS and TWS, and their respective update rates. You will see that TWS is tailor made to give a good vertical FOV, and medium update rate for good missile data link 

RWS vertical FOV 

4 bar = 6.9 degrees

3 bar = 5.6 degrees  

2 bar = 4.3 degrees 

1 bar = 3 degrees 

TWS vertical FOV

4 bar = 7.8 degrees

3 bar= 6.2 degrees

2 bar = 4.6 degrees

 

RWS 15 degree azimuth  update rate 

4 bar = 2 seconds

2 bar = 1 seconds 

1 bar = .5 second 

TWS 10 degree azimuth  update rate 

4 bar = 1.2 seconds

 

RWS 30 degree azimuth  update rate 

4 bar = 4 seconds 

2 bar = 2 seconds 

1 bar = 1 second 

TWS 25 degree azimuth  update rate 

3 bar: 2.5 seconds 

 

RWS 60 degree azimuth  update rate 

4 bar = 8 seconds 

2 bar = 4 seconds

1 bar = 2 seconds 

 

TWS 60 degree azimuth  update rate 

2 bar = 4 seconds 

 

  To rank them for vertical FOV from largest to smallest is TWS 4 bar, RWS 4 bar, then TWS 3 bar, TWS 2 bar, RWS 2 bar, then RWS 1 bar. 

 

Ranking them for update rate quickest to slowest top five is 

RWS 15 degree 1 bar .5 second

RWS 30 degree 1 bar tied with RWS 15 degree 2 bar for 1 second 

TWS 10 degree 4 bar 1.2 seconds 

And after that is three RWS modes tied for 2 seconds, then TWS 25 degree for 2.5 seconds. and the worst of course being RWS 60 degree 1 bar 

Info comes from Deka of 60 degree per second azimuth scan rate, 1.3 degree bar spacing in RWS and 1.6 degrees in TWS, using 3 degree wide beam 

Edited August 31, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[Napillo]

STT 0 bar 0 seconds

[Th3ChosenOn3]

17 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

I prefer default TWS 25 degree scan. In RWS it’s very hard to track two targets at once becuase the scan zone automatically reduces the closer you get. Also the scan times of TWS are optimized to give a fox 3 missile fast updates, while in RWS you can make it so the fox 3 missile gets very few updates. 

RWS/SAM is far more powerful in 1 vs 1, but TWS is the best IMO for DTT 

Also, in TWS the bars are farther apart. This means that for the same bars in TWS or RWS, that TWS will have a larger vertical FOV, meaning you can have greater vertical separation of targets while still firing on two. 
 

In RWS you are free to use any combo of bars and azimuth, but in TWS you have only three presets, which I find helpful becuase they are already optimized for fox 3 fighting and I can think less and focus on getting a good shot and other radar properties like PRF 

Here are numbers comparing the FOV vertically of RWS and TWS, and their respective update rates. You will see that TWS is tailor made to give a good vertical FOV, and medium update rate for good missile data link 

RWS vertical FOV 

4 bar = 6.9 degrees

3 bar = 5.6 degrees  

2 bar = 4.3 degrees 

1 bar = 3 degrees 

TWS vertical FOV

4 bar = 7.8 degrees

3 bar= 6.2 degrees

2 bar = 4.6 degrees

 

RWS 15 degree azimuth  update rate 

4 bar = 2 seconds

2 bar = 1 seconds 

1 bar = .5 second 

TWS 10 degree azimuth  update rate 

4 bar = 1.2 seconds

 

RWS 30 degree azimuth  update rate 

4 bar = 4 seconds 

2 bar = 2 seconds 

1 bar = 1 second 

TWS 25 degree azimuth  update rate 

3 bar: 2.5 seconds 

 

RWS 60 degree azimuth  update rate 

4 bar = 8 seconds 

2 bar = 4 seconds

1 bar = 2 seconds 

 

TWS 60 degree azimuth  update rate 

2 bar = 4 seconds 

 

  To rank them for vertical FOV from largest to smallest is TWS 4 bar, RWS 4 bar, then TWS 3 bar, TWS 2 bar, RWS 2 bar, then RWS 1 bar. 

 

Ranking them for update rate quickest to slowest top five is 

RWS 15 degree 1 bar .5 second

RWS 30 degree 1 bar tied with RWS 15 degree 2 bar for 1 second 

TWS 10 degree 4 bar 1.2 seconds 

And after that is three RWS modes tied for 2 seconds, then TWS 25 degree for 2.5 seconds. and the worst of course being RWS 60 degree 1 bar 

Info comes from Deka of 60 degree per second azimuth scan rate, 1.3 degree bar spacing in RWS and 1.6 degrees in TWS, using 3 degree wide beam 

 

Interesting data, thank for posting!

I used to also prefer the default TWS/DTT setup for BVR, but a couple of update ago TWS started detecting and showing targets on the radar screen, but they couldn't be locked for a couple of seconds (Normally 5-10 seconds, probably linked to the update rate if I'm looking at your data). Not being able to lock up targets for a couple of seconds after detecting them is a extremely frustrating and a big disadvantage when you're at close ranges after notching.

I've noticed that RWS for the most part does not have this behavior, allowing detected targets to be locked up immediately, and so I've preferred it as of late.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Th3ChosenOn3

[Fortinero]

On 8/31/2022 at 1:40 AM, Napillo said:

STT 0 bar 0 seconds

0 SA