investigating Yaw autopilot issue

[bingbean]

8 hours ago, Otaroko said:

I am holding the microswitch.

It looks like hardware isue. Do you have VKB gladiator NXT, and the microswitch mapped to one of the HAT switch?  I like my Gladiator NXT , but those THAT buttons doesn't like press and hold position. I have to push the button really hard to keep it in active position. Probably your joystick have same problen in this case. You did thinking you hold the microswitch buttons all the time, but actually it was not active all the time. Try to map the pedals microswitch for another button on your joystick or use my default.lua file.

I did modify input lua file for keyboard. Pressing and release Y key will hold the microswitch in active position. For deactivate pedals microswitch you need press Lshift+Y.

The file is located in  : 

....\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\Mi-24P\Input\Mi_24P_pilot\keyboard

 

default.lua

Edited October 4, 2022 by bingbean

[Otaroko]

A quick video I put together to better illustrate what I'm talking about. Seems easier than trying to upload a track file.

 

 

52 minutes ago, bingbean said:

It looks like hardware isue. Do you have VKB gladiator NXT, and the microswitch mapped to one of the HAT switch?  I like my Gladiator NXT , but those THAT buttons doesn't like press and hold position. I have to push the button really hard to keep it in active position. Probably your joystick have same problen in this case. You did thinking you hold the microswitch buttons all the time, but actually it was not active all the time. Try to map the pedals microswitch for another button on your joystick or use my default.lua file.

I did modify input lua file for keyboard. Pressing and release Y key will hold the microswitch in active position. For deactivate pedals microswitch you need press Lshift+Y.

The file is located in  : 

....\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\Mi-24P\Input\Mi_24P_pilot\keyboard

default.lua 183.76 kB · 0 downloads

Thank you, I have the microswitch bound to a key on my throttle which runs to a BU0836X and I've verified the switch stays on when it's switched to the ON position as it's the speed brake switch on a TQS. So "Forward HOLD on" "Backward Spring OFF"

If I continue to have issues I will give your lua modification a try.

 

But I do believe the issue here is that the anti-torque pedals are getting trimmed to hold a heading but the only way to disengage that trim is to press the RESET Trim button. This doesn't seem like the correct solution here.

 

To add: Setting Rudder trim button in Special Options to cyclic trim, and thus pressing the cyclic trim button does not reset the rudder pedal trim

Edited October 4, 2022 by Otaroko
words

[AeriaGloria]

1 hour ago, Otaroko said:

A quick video I put together to better illustrate what I'm talking about. Seems easier than trying to upload a track file.

 

 

Thank you, I have the microswitch bound to a key on my throttle which runs to a BU0836X and I've verified the switch stays on when it's switched to the ON position as it's the speed brake switch on a TQS. So "Forward HOLD on" "Backward Spring OFF"

If I continue to have issues I will give your lua modification a try.

 

But I do believe the issue here is that the anti-torque pedals are getting trimmed to hold a heading but the only way to disengage that trim is to press the RESET Trim button. This doesn't seem like the correct solution here.

 

To add: Setting Rudder trim button in Special Options to cyclic trim, and thus pressing the cyclic trim button does not reset the rudder pedal trim

 

That setting only means you have separate/only cyclic trim. 
 

  I watched your video, and everything I saw was what I expected. Press MicroSwitch and you got dampening and no auto trimming. Release MicroSwitch/put into heading hold and you get auto trimming when limit is hit. 
 

  If you were wondering why it was trimmed on spawn in, that’s because on hot start the yaw AP defaults to on in heading hold mode, and might have already trimmed you before you have a chance to take control. Perhaps similar to air start where everything is pre trimmed for you.
 

  The auto trimming in heading hold is correct, it’s what the real thing does. They added it in this patch because when they first added MicroSwitch logic they removed this real feature, and only just now added it back in, 

 So I believe it’s working as intended. Would it be nice if ED made it an option to never have heading hold trim pedals as a special option? Sure, but that is a wishlist request and not a bug. If you were to make a wishlist thread requesting to make auto trimming in heading hold an option, I would back you 1000%. 
 

Force feedback pedals wouldn’t help anyone becuase In Reality the pedals only have the hydraulic SDV-5000-OA dampener slowing them down or moving them. They do not center in reality or have any other forces. So for real Mi-24 pilots, if heading hold auto trims pedals it’s simple to just put feet on pedals (activating MicroSwitch) and then move them. 

  Something I would like ED to add is realistic yaw AP interaction of the pedal damper switch on the instrument panel. When disabled it should force heading hold mode off and force Yaw AP dampening mode on (no matter MicroSwitch position.) if they simulated this it would solve having to hold down the MicroSwitch button. But for me I have no problem using a switch or even that LUA file to hold down MicroSwitch and thus avoiding heading hold auto trimming. If I ever need heading hold, I just make sure to never yaw more then 9 degrees in any direction as that will engage the auto trimming when you see the yellow cryllic letters 

The “left pedal” and “right pedal” buttons also trim the pedals, you can use those to regain lost authority without reset trim. But for me I just always keep micro switches on, and very careful when using heading hold. 
 

Under pedal trim options is also the option to make the MicroSwitch button also trim pedals when released. I always thought was useless but perhaps it is useful for some people? 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[bingbean]

Made a video was a good ideal. When i was look the track before and notice there the AP goes to heading mode, i was thinking it was by accident because the button problem.  But actually you released the pedals microswitch button on purpose.  So the problem is not the AP goes in heading mode when he should not, but the auto trim when he is in heading mode.  If you wont the AP desynchronize physical and logical pedal position, then the solution is don't use heading mode at all or get some force feedback pedals.

If you have mechanical switch what can hold the pedals microswitch on, then there is no reason for you use modified lua file. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by bingbean

[Otaroko]

Yeah I think after looking at your replies the issue is a de-synchronization between our physical pedal position and pedal position in-game for the sake of simulation. Maybe there should be a setting that updates the in-game pedal position to the physical pedal position upon a button press? Or Microswitches should engage upon ANY movement of the physical rudder pedals, not just exceeding 9%? No idea how to get around this (updating in-game pedal position to align with physical) without using RESET Trim though which sucks as it also moves the cyclic trim. Oh well, hopefully this should help someone else that shows up with a similar question or issue.

[AeriaGloria]

25 minutes ago, Otaroko said:

Yeah I think after looking at your replies the issue is a de-synchronization between our physical pedal position and pedal position in-game for the sake of simulation. Maybe there should be a setting that updates the in-game pedal position to the physical pedal position upon a button press? Or Microswitches should engage upon ANY movement of the physical rudder pedals, not just exceeding 9%? No idea how to get around this (updating in-game pedal position to align with physical) without using RESET Trim though which sucks as it also moves the cyclic trim. Oh well, hopefully this should help someone else that shows up with a similar question or issue.

There is a way check your settings! If you look at pedal trim settings you can set the MicroSwitch button to also act as INDIVIDUAL pedal trim. So when you release it you will always re trim pedals. You can choose no pedal trim, cyclic/pedals trim together, or have separate cyclic trim and having microswitches act as independent pedal trim

There is ALSo A setting to have microswitches engaged whenever pedals are moved like you suggested! Just have to check your “MicroSwitch Logic” setting to “enable/disable by pedal movement.” The individual MicroSwitch bind will still work. If you want more specific names and functions of each special setting they are in my guide at the end of Section B part 2!

Now these settings like enable/disable by pedal movement, I don’t think work so well. I personally wouldn’t want to trim pedals with MicroSwitch becuase I don’t have springed pedals, and I prefer to almost always have MicroSwitch pressed (like it is in reality, as it’s pressed whenever feet are on the pedals.) But they are there and you are free to experiment with them and see if they suit your individual flying style 

I think the answer is just to only use heading hold for long straight line trips, or don’t use Yaw AP at all when maneuvering, but that’s just me…… 

AND, I also made a bug report on disabling tue pedal dampener not disabling the auto trim of heading hold. If you want to comment or add a track it would help ED want to simulate tuat function. That way you won’t need to hold down microswtich but just flip the red guarded pedal damper switch on instrument panel. 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[jojojung]

I think its connected to my bug report a few months ago. There was the situation that the heading AP was not able to move the padles and was not able to hold the heading under big torque. Since the last OB patch it can hold the heading again.