LF.IXc with 50-cal guns instead of .303s

[Skewgear]

The Spitfire LF.Mk.IX came in two main armament variants: the 2x 20mm cannon + 4x .303" machine guns, which is what is currently modelled in DCS, and one with 2x 20mm + 4x .50" guns.

Modelling this should be a small task: copy the existing aircraft and swap the appropriate weapon entries. The ammo capacity was slightly reduced for the 50s.

Our in-game aircraft has the type C wing, which was the universal wing capable of mounting both machine gun types with no further modification required: http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/concise-guide-to-spitfire-wing-types.html/2

[DD_Fenrir]

4 hours ago, Skewgear said:

Our in-game aircraft has the type C wing, which was the universal wing capable of mounting both machine gun types with no further modification required: http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/concise-guide-to-spitfire-wing-types.html/2

Whilst I agree with the sentiment (I have also started threads requesting the MkIXe, this being the sub-variant with the 2x .50s instead of 4x 303s) this last statement is not entirely correct; the C or Universal wing can indeed accept both armament configurations but some 3d re-modelling work would be required:

1. Cannon shrouds are not only moved to the outboard position but also shortened and often had a different profile 
2. The bulges to accommodate the feed motors to the cannon in the overwing ammo tray access hatches also have to move outboard with the cannon
3. The spent cartridge ejection ports on the underside access hatch also change to match the revised position of the guns breeches.

So some work is required; however it would be a useful expansion of the module for a modest amount of work and would certainly help the Spitfire have a version more relevant to the later war Luftwaffe fighter types in DCS.

Edited October 1, 2022 by DD_Fenrir

[Ala13_ManOWar]

IIRC, the E type weaponry (.50 cal brownings x2, not 4) only came in Spit XVI, and later on upgraded to some IXs. Possible, yes, but I believe either they flew in the war for two weeks before it ended in Europe, or something like that.

Other than that, you're asking for a literal what if, 4 .50 brownings intead of the .303 ones, DCS generally try not to model what ifs (some third parties loadouts, ahem, but generally speaking they try not to). You want to make a mod for that which will be unusable online great, make it for your own use, upload it to user files and perhaps some others find it amusing and usable, but a weird and unheard of what if I'm not sure that's a realistic scenario to hope for devs to make or even consider .

And as always, no, it's not just a copy paste, that extra weight on the wings would definitely affect FM for bad, worse roll for sure, less top speed and acceleration probably, less climbing speed for sure. That's no copy paste, no.

[DD_Fenrir]

15 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

IIRC, the E type weaponry (.50 cal brownings x2, not 4) only came in Spit XVI, and later on upgraded to some IXs. Possible, yes, but I believe either they flew in the war for two weeks before it ended in Europe, or something like that.

Other than that, you're asking for a literal what if, 4 .50 brownings intead of the .303 ones, DCS generally try not to model what ifs (some third parties loadouts, ahem, but generally speaking they try not to). You want to make a mod for that which will be unusable online great, make it for your own use, upload it to user files and perhaps some others find it amusing and usable, but a weird and unheard of what if I'm not sure that's a realistic scenario to hope for devs to make or even consider .

And as always, no, it's not just a copy paste, that extra weight on the wings would definitely affect FM for bad, worse roll for sure, less top speed and acceleration probably, less climbing speed for sure. That's no copy paste, no.

One wing (125 wing) of IXe was in evidence just after D-Day, consisting 602, 453 and 132 squadrons. Others were upgraded prior to the wider appearance of the mkXVI on operations. 
 

There is photographic evidence of this - both Johnny Johnson and Geoffrey Page are pictured in or alongside .50 cal equipped Merlin 66 engined Spitfires in D-Day markings at a time long before any serial numbers denoting mkXVI variants would have appeared at the frontline.

[DD_Fenrir]

It should also be noted that there is no Spitfire with 4x .50s.

The .50s we’re placed alongside the cannon, not in the outer wing positions.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

2 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

There is photographic evidence of this - both Johnny Johnson and Geoffrey Page are pictured in or alongside .50 cal equipped Merlin 66 engined Spitfires in D-Day markings at a time long before any serial numbers denoting mkXVI variants would have appeared at the frontline.

Yep, checked it and that's right, though I believe they aren't D-day markings, they're post-D-day markings, the leftovers only in bottom sides which lasted quite long instead of one single week, hence it's not his famous LF.Mk.IXc EN398 but a later airframe.

Anyhow, I think I was confusing the E weaponry and Mk.XVI in general with bubble top XVI, those were the ones having only two weeks of service in Europe at the end of the war. My mistaken poor brain, every day recalling worse and worse .

 

Point remains, 4 .50cal guns in a Spit means what if…

[Skewgear]

On 10/1/2022 at 5:34 PM, DD_Fenrir said:

It should also be noted that there is no Spitfire with 4x .50s.

The .50s we’re placed alongside the cannon, not in the outer wing positions.

Indeed there wasn't, I've learnt something from this thread.

More detail on the installation: http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/sorting-out-the-e-american-armament-for-the-spitfire-mk-ixxvi.html