Need to allow Throttle Detent Cutoff to be set to 0

[imacken]

For some time, I wondered why my throttle wasn't registering any movement forward for the first 15% or so past the idele detent.  I recently just noticed the setting in the Special Menu for Detent Cutoff. That has a minimum of 15.

Now, for those of us with Virpil CM3 throttles, the standard method of setting the idle detent, is to have 0% output at the detent, and a button for idle/cutoff below that.  Works perfectly in all modules except the M2000. That is because RAZBAM will not allow the slider to go below 15%.

How do I make a request to them to allow this to go to 0% to fix this issue?  It can still be set to 15% as default in settings.

[Galinette]

15 is the maximum, the minimum is 3. Why not 0? Because cutoff was designed to work like IRL, which means cutoff is an actual throttle range. The red button being only an "unlock" that prevents moving into that range. Pressing it doesn't shutdown the engine, but only allows moving the throttle to the range where it will shutdown. So an actual axis range must be reserved for cutoff.

If you have a CM3, save yourself a button! Set the slider to 3, add an "axis to button" below 2%, bind it to "Cutoff unlock" and set a mechanical detent that requires pulling the unlock trigger to go below 3%.

This way, you get the exact behavior of the real thing.

The sliders were precisely, developped with the CM3 in mind.

And if you want, I have a 3D printable M2000-C style detent for you specially designed as well

(Unlock required to go cutoff, no unlock required to go idle, and symmetric afterburner detent stop with no required unlock action)

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Kercheiz

[imacken]

Thank you for that. what an idiot I am! Yes, the 3% helps, but it would be nice to have the lower limit at 0% as that is where the detent is set in the CM3.

The recommended method of binding throttle detent in the CM3 is to set the detent at 0% in the VPC software and have buttons for idle/off past that point.  No need to save buttons on the CM3, there are 128 available!

This method works perfectly in all modules except the M2000.  I always wondered why I didn't have full movement in this module, but now I know.  

Edited November 14, 2022 by imacken

[imacken]

2 hours ago, Kercheiz said:

If you have a CM3, save yourself a button! Set the slider to 3, add an "axis to button" below 2%, bind it to "Cutoff unlock" and set a mechanical detent that requires pulling the unlock trigger to go below 3%.

This way, you get the exact behavior of the real thing.

 

Re-reading your post, we are almost talking about the same thing.  That's exactly the way I do it, except that the axis-to-button is coded to raw values based on below 0%, i.e. past the idle detent.

[Galinette]

Okay, I see

We still need a minimal non zero idle detent, since the M2000 bind does only unlock the idle range, and does not actually move the throttle. But it's 3%, not 15%

I'll see if we can move it to 2% or even 1%.

3% was chosen because the idle position is critical as you burn your engine when starting on idle, and people with old jittery throttles have spurious cutoff unlocks and then claim it's a bug...

[imacken]

I get that, but it shouldn't affect the slider to go to 0%.  It would keep everyone happy!

[Galinette]

You can change the slider limits, it's a dlg file. And you will likely have issues

[imacken]

which dlg?

[imacken]

Actually, I think it's optionsDb.lua.  Just trying it out now.

[Galinette]

You can even set the value to zero in Saved Games (Config/options.lua) without modifying your games files.

But again, I know the throttle logic, and it expects an actual cutoff axis range with a non zero threshold. Because we wanted to be able to move continuously the throttle to the cutoff position while pressing the red button, and not having a "jump" of the throttle position in game. 3% axis loss was an acceptable trade off.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Kercheiz

[imacken]

Yep, 0 doesn't work, but 1 does. I'm happy with that.

Thanks for all your help!

[Galinette]

No problem! If it works well I will change the minimum slider value to 1

[imacken]

Seems to be working fine. I’ve tried a few cold starts and take off IA missions. 
Thanks again!

[default762792]

On 11/14/2022 at 6:46 AM, Kercheiz said:

15 is the maximum, the minimum is 3. Why not 0? Because cutoff was designed to work like IRL, which means cutoff is an actual throttle range. The red button being only an "unlock" that prevents moving into that range. Pressing it doesn't shutdown the engine, but only allows moving the throttle to the range where it will shutdown. So an actual axis range must be reserved for cutoff.

If you have a CM3, save yourself a button! Set the slider to 3, add an "axis to button" below 2%, bind it to "Cutoff unlock" and set a mechanical detent that requires pulling the unlock trigger to go below 3%.

This way, you get the exact behavior of the real thing.

The sliders were precisely, developped with the CM3 in mind.

And if you want, I have a 3D printable M2000-C style detent for you specially designed as well

(Unlock required to go cutoff, no unlock required to go idle, and symmetric afterburner detent stop with no required unlock action)

 

 

Where could I find the file for the M2000-style detent? I have a CM3 and indirect access to a 3D printer. Merci!

[Galinette]

7 hours ago, default762792 said:

Where could I find the file for the M2000-style detent? I have a CM3 and indirect access to a 3D printer. Merci!

Here is it!

It's ready for Prusa Slicer (there is a modifier to enforce supports at one strategic place)
If you print on another printer, you may have to set support to the pointy overhang at the afterburner detent, which can't be properly bridged

throttle-detent2.3mf

The idea behind this detent, is the afterburner detent should not be a groove that locks the throttle in place and require effort to go either directions, but rather a stop ; if you go up to the detent without going beyond (mil power) you should be able to throttle down without feeling any resistance.

The drawback is, it eats up a little bit of axis range. I have another design in mind with a movable part that should be better, no axis range lost and much more firm detent. I'll post it here once finished!

[default762792]

Excellent, thanks very much!

[Delta-canard]

May I hijack the topic for a noobish question? I'm learning the Mirage and I've been struggling with the engine shuting off whet throttled too far back, I also have to push the throttle fairly far forward during the startup procedure. On the other hand, the PC seems well calibrated with my physical detent. I'm using the Winwing Orion  throttle with the F-16 handle.

So I have to change settings in the Special Menu? Or just use the curve so that my handle in the Idle position would mean some more % (about what is needed for the engine to stay at about 50% thrust?)

[Galinette]

Best is using the special menu slider, rather than a curve! You can set the threshold to match your physical detent.

 

[Delta-canard]

Thanks! It was actually simple, I just had to bring the slider all the way down and bind to Engine Cutoff Unlock both the JOY_BTN_30 and Off_JOY_BTN_30