Warthog thrust lever switching bugs

[Willie Nelson]

Anyone have any experience with the Warthog thrust lever switch 9/10 (just below the standard speed brake switch) having intermittent switching issues that seem to conflate switching with switches 7 and 8 (the standard speed brake switch just above it) and then all of these switches become mixed up.

I am trying to diagnose whether this may be a controller fault or a switch fault. I am not quite sure where to start and the setup is long out of warranty. 

I am open to ideas......

[Lange_666]

It could be a controller board or a pinched wire (for this to see you have to open it up and even then it could be difficult to pinpoint), the switches itself causing this behavior is unlikely.

[Willie Nelson]

On 12/25/2022 at 6:38 PM, Lange_666 said:

It could be a controller board or a pinched wire (for this to see you have to open it up and even then it could be difficult to pinpoint), the switches itself causing this behavior is unlikely.

Thanks very much for that, I'll have a look. Have you had personal experience with this in the past. My problem is particularly frustrating because it is only intermittent.

[Lange_666]

2 hours ago, Willie Nelson said:

Have you had personal experience with this in the past.

No (not for the Warthog), but there are a few posts about pinched wires here on the forum (and more on the net).
(+ i have 38 years of experience (retired now) in electric/electronic maintenance/problem solving, things like this then still ring a little bell...)

2 hours ago, Willie Nelson said:

My problem is particularly frustrating because it is only intermittent.

If it's the controller board it will (as good as) always happen when one or a certain combination of switches/buttons is activated, no matter what position the throttle is in. If you are sure that it's not a combination of switches/buttons that causes it to act up, it rules out the controller board (99%).
If it are wires then it will probably happen when you move the throttle up to a certain point (a mm more forward or backward can be enough), if you don't use the switch then, nothing happens, if the switch which has pinched wires is activated, it could lead to short circuited input on your controller board giving weird results (without damaging the controller board, it just gets the wrong input).

I have a refurbished Warthog (straight from TM) and because i did read that there could be problems with the wires inside the throttle, the first thing i did was to check if the wires didn't rub against anything that could lead to problems over time. They didn't.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Lange_666

[Willie Nelson]

1 hour ago, Lange_666 said:

No (not for the Warthog), but there are a few posts about pinched wires here on the forum (and more on the net).
(+ i have 38 years of experience (retired now) in electric/electronic maintenance/problem solving, things like this then still ring a little bell...)

 

That's awesome, people like me are very lucky that people like you lurk on these forums. 

Based upon what you're saying it is sounding suspiciiusly like it might be a board then. I screwed the thrust lever cover off today and and I observed that there is a board in the RH thrust lever itself in addition to the main board. For the smaller board in the thrust lever it is possible that I was seeing a slighly lose connector, I've pushed it in a little and I will report further. 

Thanks again, I really appreciate the tips. 

While I have got you, is there any stick/throttle combo you would recommend, the warthog has been a pretty decent combo up till now but I know it has a few issues. 

[Lange_666]

3 hours ago, Willie Nelson said:

While I have got you, is there any stick/throttle combo you would recommend, the warthog has been a pretty decent combo up till now but I know it has a few issues. 

Anything Virpil, VKB or WinWing or a combo of these.

Sidenote:
What i have: TM Warthog but i switched out the Warthog stick base for a Virpil WarBRD one, way better, no friction (i used to have a TM Cougar with a Ubermod as gimbal for the stick so the base Warthog gimbal didn't cut it after using that). I do like the WH throttle.

[Willie Nelson]

I was thinking you might say that. I believe I will start my search for a warBRD base. They look like the way to go. 
 

Thanks again. 

[Lange_666]

If going for a Virpil WarBRD base take note of the following:

- You can rewrite the USB/VID number of the WarBRD if you put a TM stick on it which then can acts like a Warthog Stick inside the TM Target software (if you should use that).
- The WarBRD sticks are made of plastic weighing a lot less then your old TM stick you will put on the WarBRD base. This means it leans forward with the stock springs that are mounted. However, it comes with a set of heavier springs. If installed the stick forward lean is then reduced to around 2° or less. A thing you won't notice once calibrated. If needed, you can always order a set of extra heavy springs sold separately to overcome that last 2° lean. But i feel it's a waste of money.
- The WarBRD base can be fitted with a number of cams, i use those with zero center feel/bump.
- If you tend to sell the Warthog base, sell it without the base plate (there is demand for that, i sold mine within 48 hours). Then swap the Virpil base plate out for the TM one (you have to drill 4 new holes to in the TM base plate to fit the Virpil base on it, no worries, the old holes are covered by the new base).

After that... if you are used to a TM gimbal, you're just gonna be spoiled (as if you would with a VKB one).

Edited December 28, 2022 by Lange_666

[Willie Nelson]

That lean you’re talking about, is that because the stick has more weight on the front than the rear. I’m wondering if I could compensate for that by installing it in my chair at a suitable angle? 

[rob10]

7 minutes ago, Willie Nelson said:

That lean you’re talking about, is that because the stick has more weight on the front than the rear. I’m wondering if I could compensate for that by installing it in my chair at a suitable angle? 

I use my TM F-18 grip on the WarBRD base and I've never had an issue with it using the stock springs.  Some have had the same experience I have, others feel like Lange_666.  Either way, the WarBRD base is much nicer than the TM base.

[Lange_666]

8 hours ago, Willie Nelson said:

That lean you’re talking about, is that because the stick has more weight on the front than the rear. I’m wondering if I could compensate for that by installing it in my chair at a suitable angle? 

1: Yes, the stick isn't properly balanced on it's center line. The heavy TM spring and friction of the plastic TM gimbals compensate for this but that is not a nice solution if you ask me.
2: I guess so, if you mount the front of the plate a bit upwarts it will compensate.

With the stock springs, those that were mounted when the base arrived, the forward lean was quite prominent, way too much to my liking.
With the provided heavy's, that lean is almost gone.
That there is a slight amount of lean is not a big problem, you pull a lot more on the stick over a longer range then you push it.

With the stock springs mounted, it was +/- like this:

 

With the supplied heavy springs it became this:

 

 

I'm sure that with the separate to buy extra heavy's the lean is totally gone.

Opening the base up and change the cams or springs isn't much of a hassle. Piece of cake.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Lange_666

[Willie Nelson]

Thanks very much for that. Fortunately the sat that I’ve bolted it all to is angled slightly upward. I’ll see how it goes. 

[Gogsie59]

I have this exact same problem. Started yesterday, the switches are all mixed up on the right hand throttle set up.  This also happened about three months ago and it corrected itself so fingers crossed. If not I'll strip it down to have a look. Willie, if you have any luck can you update this post with any tips. Cheers Grant.

[Willie Nelson]

1 hour ago, Gogsie59 said:

I have this exact same problem. Started yesterday, the switches are all mixed up on the right hand throttle set up.  This also happened about three months ago and it corrected itself so fingers crossed. If not I'll strip it down to have a look. Willie, if you have any luck can you update this post with any tips. Cheers Grant.

Hi Grant,

I'm not sure if pushing back in the connector was a fix as it didn't appear that far out of place to be honest but it did move back in a little and hasn't caused any further problems over the last couple of days. Fingers crossed indeed.

From what i can see I wouldn't go straight to a "full stripdown" I would simply pull the throttle lever cover off (screws on the inside of side of lever facing oppositte lever) and then have a look at the board and connectors. At least start with that and see if there's anything obvious. Good luck.

[Gogsie59]

Thanks Willie,  Grant.

[Gogsie59]

I have got my throttle buttons working perfectly again, I opened the Windows calibration via joy.cpl in the run window. As I checked all the switches on the right throttle numerous buttons were being activated when I pressed for example button 7, same for all the other buttons the numbers were flashing on and off as if I was pressing them. I recalibrated the throttle with the Windows calibration tool and bingo all working as it should. Very strange that this happened but just a heads up to anyone who comes across this problem. Thanks again to Willie for getting back to me. Grant.

[Lange_666]

On 12/27/2022 at 9:53 AM, Willie Nelson said:

For the smaller board in the thrust lever it is possible that I was seeing a slighly lose connector, I've pushed it in a little and I will report further. 

On 1/1/2023 at 1:14 PM, Willie Nelson said:

Hi Grant,

I'm not sure if pushing back in the connector was a fix as it didn't appear that far out of place to be honest but it did move back in a little and hasn't caused any further problems over the last couple of days. Fingers crossed indeed.

These little connectors normally don't come loose in their seating. Any chance of the wires pulling to hard on it while moving the throttle?

[Willie Nelson]

On 1/4/2023 at 8:58 AM, Lange_666 said:

These little connectors normally don't come loose in their seating. Any chance of the wires pulling to hard on it while moving the throttle?

I don’t know if that was the cause of my grief, perhaps not. It will simply take some time to confirm whether the problem reoccurs.