Brunner FFB

[Gunfreak]

I sold old hobby stuff and I'm gonna get myself a brunner FFB base with virpil extender and grip.

 

But this review (now 3 years old)

Mentions the FFB effect is almost absent in several moduals.

 

 

Has this changed in the last 3 years?

[cordite]

Don't bother with an extension, unless you get the ridiculously priced P model.

Have you perused these threads? There is a wealth of info.

 

 

There's also someone building/selling a force feedback base for somewhat cheaper, but presumably no warranty. Can't find that thread right now.

 

[Gunfreak]

42 minutes ago, cordite said:

Don't bother with an extension, unless you get the ridiculously priced P model.

Have you perused these threads? There is a wealth of info.

 

 

There's also someone building/selling a force feedback base for somewhat cheaper, but presumably no warranty. Can't find that thread right now.

 

I have extention on my current center stick. It means no need for curves on any planes. So I'll want and extention on this too.

[zerO_crash]

I am using the Brunner CLS-E with a 20cm extension and Virpil T-50CM2. Don´t worry about those claiming that it´s not strong enough, it´s not true. I´m using mine with an extension, and it works superb. The extension can be longer if need be. It´s the best base you can get, a complete game changer (coming from MSFFB2, through Virpil base and Brunner CLS-E last two/three years). It´s worth every penny. Fantastic setup, and now that it supports DirectX FFB without any adjusting (plug and play) and Arduino, is simply beyond words. There were some issues with the Arduino solution, which are gone now. It cannot get better, let me put it this way. Shoot for it, you won´t regret it!

Edited April 13, 2023 by zerO_crash

[tribundf]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:54 AM, zerO_crash said:

I am using the Brunner CLS-E with a 10cm extension and Virpil T-50CM2. Don´t worry about those claiming that it´s not strong enough, it´s not true. I´m using mine with an extension, and it works superb. The extension can be longer if need be. It´s the best base you can get, a complete game changer (coming from MSFFB2, through Virpil base and Brunner CLS-E last two/three years). It´s worth every penny. Fantastic setup, and now that it supports DirectX FFB without any adjusting (plug and play) and Arduino, is simply beyond words. There were some issues with the Arduino solution, which are gone now. It cannot get better, let me put it this way. Shoot for it, you won´t regret it!

 

Hey man. I was just thinking about pulling out my old Brunner base for the tomcat. Could you share how exactly what your issues were with the ardino or maybe give me a quick run through.  I remember it was somewhat complicated back in the day so I never bothered with it.

what type of feedback do you get from DCS? 
 

 

edit: ignore my question, I found this: 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by tribundf

[zerO_crash]

On 4/7/2023 at 6:09 AM, tribundf said:

Hey man. I was just thinking about pulling out my old Brunner base for the tomcat. Could you share how exactly what your issues were with the ardino or maybe give me a quick run through.  I remember it was somewhat complicated back in the day so I never bothered with it.

what type of feedback do you get from DCS? 
 

 

edit: ignore my question, I found this: 

 

 

 

 

No worries, all good brother. Not all the issues are listed in that thread. I did help a couple forum members with setting up their Brunner-hardware outside (email correspondence) and not all had the same issues. First and foremost, the "official" software worked splendid, absolutely carefree. You installed CLS2Sim, made the tuning that you so desireed and off you went. However, there were no FFB-effects in the sim and trimming of the actual stick was handled by CLS2Sim. As such, there was a discrepancy between the trimmed aircraft and its autopilot vs. the actual physical position of the stick. Those two would simply not overlay properly. Furthermore, there were no FFB-effects such as rumble, increasing control stiffness relative to speed (WWII prop, and other non articulated aircraft (Hydraulics/FBW). The obvious solution then, was to somehow get a software that would translate DCS's DirectX FFB-output to the stick by the use of CLS2Sim (only interface to the stick and it did not support DirectX). Therefore, the solution with Arduino (thanks to Chuls), acting as a translator to get those effects, and correct trimming with regards to the simulator output of each specific module. 

 

Digression - because of lacking native interface (back then) between Brunner's CLS2Sim and DCS, using the trim in DCS (without the Arduino-solution), you would trim the aircraft in DCS, however the stick wouldn't move. If you used CLS2Sim, then you also had to use its keybindings for so-called "physical trimming". That meant that CLS2Sim would actually move the center of the stick, instead of DCS. Now, even if you bound the same buttons inside DCS and CLS2Sim to the same trimming-scheme, CLS2Sim would either move too fast or too slow, depending on the aircraft. Furthermore, aircraft with heavy autopilot reliance did not recieve proper autopilot input, and as such, excessive amounts of trimming-errors were accumulated (unacceptable).

 

Arduino, came and fixed that by, as mentioned; allowing DCS's DirectX to interface with, and affect, Brunner through the CLS2Sim (For the record, the sheer amount of software and basic understanding of why you needed it, is what threw most people off - esp. considering the price of the product. When you pay a melon for hardware, you expect it to work plug-and-play.). While the solution was perfect in essence, some minor imperfections remained:

 

- You couldn't let go of the stick quickly, or touch it accidentally (bump into it), as that would bring a perfectly trimmed stick into an ever expanding oscillation, resulting in violent pendulum-like motion hitting the opposite walls of the base. Not everyone seemed to have this problem, but some, me included, had it. As such, you always had to "delicately" (by my standards, that is hairline-fine) let go of the stick, so as not to induce the oscillation.

- Upon ejection or crash-landing, the stick could lock up in a maximum force condition. This was not serious though as typically going back to main menu or even selecting a new aircraft (from my testing), would fix it.

 

There were some other smaller ones, however they mostly got fixed with later iterations of the BrunnerDX-build. To be quite honest, Chuls is the man! The fact that he managed to build such a universal and well working app (nevermind the small quirks), is insane. It was simple in use, it was simple in maintenance and generally simple in installation, with the only "if" being reserved to windows and its buggy nature.

 

Now however, you don't need the Arduino and BrunnerDX anymore. As Brunner has recognized, DCS-community is generally a dedicated community which is willing to shell out for hardware in the name of science, and aviation. As such, DirectX is now natively supported by Brunner-hardware. It fixes all of the aforementioned issues, also those not mentioned (due to their inconsistent nature), and makes the Brunner the ultimate base. If you are serious about flying, this is the way. Now, you use a Brunner tool which is called "Brunner USB Config" to put the base either in a DirectX-compliant mode, or CLS2Sim one (XPForce, etc...) (This changes the HID-number of the device; keybindings and settings of it will have to be reassigned). Once the base is set in either mode, the onboard controller "remembers" it, as such, you only have to put in the specific mode once, and you are done. No need for the tool anymore per se, unless you fly other sims than DCS. For DCS, you don't need the CLS2Sim anymore either. It's complementary at most, but you won't use it. In the tool, you can alter different FFB values, however from my experience, it's plug-and-play. It gives splendid results right "out of the box". No need for any tweaking, its cosmetic as such.

 

Here is the page for both the newest firmware, as well as the tool (use the hyperlinks): 

https://forum.brunner-innovation.swiss

 

1. Update the firmware of your device.

2. Use the USB-tool to set it in the desired mode.

3. Enjoy proper trimming and FFB in DCS.

Edited April 13, 2023 by zerO_crash

[tribundf]

What a great write up, thank you very much. 
 

this is awesome. I’ll give it a try as soon as I’m home from work. That will be a whole other world for DCS! Can’t wait to test it on the Tomcat 

[tribundf]

14 hours ago, zerO_crash said:

 

No worries, all good brother. Not all the issues are listed in that thread. I did help a couple forum members with setting up their Brunner-hardware outside (email correspondence) and not all had the same issues. First and foremost, the "official" software worked splendid, absolutely carefree. You installed CLS2Sim, made the tuning that you so desireed and off you went. However, there were no FFB-effects in the sim and trimming of the actual stick was handled by CLS2Sim. As such, there was a discrepancy between the trimmed aircraft and its autopilot vs. the actual physical position of the stick. Those two would simply not overlay properly. Furthermore, there were no FFB-effects such as rumble, increasing control stiffness relative to speed (WWII prop, and other non articulated aircraft (Hydraulics/FBW). The obvious solution then, was to somehow get a software that would translate DCS's DirectX FFB-output to the stick by the use of CLS2Sim (only interface to the stick and it did not support DirectX). Therefore, the solution with Arduino (thanks to Chuls), acting as a translator to get those effects, and correct trimming with regards to the simulator output of each specific module. 

 

Digression - because of lacking native interface (back then) between Brunner's CLS2Sim and DCS, using the trim in DCS (without the Arduino-solution), you would trim the aircraft in DCS, however the stick wouldn't move. If you used CLS2Sim, then you also had to use its keybindings for so-called "physical trimming". That meant that CLS2Sim would actually move the center of the stick, instead of DCS. Now, even if you bound the same buttons inside DCS and CLS2Sim to the same trimming-scheme, CLS2Sim would either move too fast or too slow, depending on the aircraft. Furthermore, the aircraft with heavy autopilot reliance, did not recieve proper autopilot input, and as such, excessive amounts of trimming-errors were accumulated (unacceptable).

 

Arduino, came and fixed that by, as mentioned; allowing DCS's DirectX to interface with, and affect, Brunner through the CLS2Sim (For the record, the sheer amount of software and basic understanding of why you needed it, is what threw most people off - esp. considering the price of the product. When you pay a melon for hardware, you expect it to work plug-and-play.). While the solution was perfect in essence, some minor imperfections remained:

 

- You couldn't let go of the stick quickly, or touch it accidentally (bump into it), as that would bring a perfectly trimmed stick into an ever expanding oscillation, resulting in violent pendulum-like motion hitting the opposite walls of the base. Not everyone seemed to have this problem, but some, me included, had it. As such, you always had to "delicately" (by my standards, that is hairline-fine) let go of the stick, so as not to induce the oscillation.

- Upon ejection or crash-landing, the stick could lock up in a maximum force condition. This was not serious though as typically going back to main menu or even selecting a new aircraft (from my testing), would fix it.

 

There were some other smaller ones, however they mostly got fixed with later iterations of the BrunnerDX-build. To be quite honest, Chuls is the man! The fact that he managed to build such a universal and well working app (nevermind the small quirks), is insane. It was simple in use, it was simple in maintenance and generally simple in installation, with the only "if" being reserved to windows and its buggy nature.

 

Now however, you don't need the Arduino and BrunnerDX anymore. As Brunner has recognized, DCS-community is generally a dedicated community which is willing to shell out for hardware in the name of science, and aviation. As such, DirectX is now natively supported by Brunner-hardware. It fixes all of the aforementioned issues, also those not mentioned (due to their inconsistent nature), and makes the Brunner the ultimate base. If you are serious about flying, this is the way. Now, you use a Brunner tool which is called "Brunner USB Config" to put the base either in a DirectX-compliant mode, or CLS2Sim one (XPForce, etc...) (This changes the HID-number of the device; keybindings and settings of it will have to be reassigned). Once the base is set in either mode, the onboard controller "remembers" it, as such, you only have to put in the specific mode once, and you are done. No need for the tool anymore per se, unless you fly other sims than DCS. For DCS, you don't need the CLS2Sim anymore either. It's complementary at most, but you won't use it. In the tool, you can alter different FFB values, however from my experience, it's plug-and-play. It gives splendid results right "out of the box". No need for any tweaking, its cosmetic as such.

 

Here is the page for both the newest firmware, as well as the tool (use the hyperlinks): 

https://forum.brunner-innovation.swiss

 

1. Update the firmware of your device.

2. Use the USB-tool to set it in the desired mode.

3. Enjoy proper trimming and FFB in DCS.

 

 

Just got home and tried out the Brunner base. Everything works as normal with the CLSSim and my Virpil Constellation Alpha Grip, but when trying to update the Firmware with the Brunner USB Fimware updater I get this message below. Also attached a pic of the log. Not sure what I am missing but the Brunner DX software tells me I dont have the newest firmware.  Any help is appreciated, since I cant find any info on this on the web at all.

 

 

[zerO_crash]

8 hours ago, tribundf said:

 

Just got home and tried out the Brunner base. Everything works as normal with the CLSSim and my Virpil Constellation Alpha Grip, but when trying to update the Firmware with the Brunner USB Fimware updater I get this message below. Also attached a pic of the log. Not sure what I am missing but the Brunner DX software tells me I dont have the newest firmware.  Any help is appreciated, since I cant find any info on this on the web at all.

 

 

 

It doesn´t find a valid firmware-file to update, which is somewhat weird, but no problem. It does detect your stick obviously, thus I´d get right to opening a ticket. Go to Brunner´s website, and at the bottom-right of your screen, you´ll see a blue support icon. Through that, open a ticket. Brunner is usually quick at responding, so I imagine that they´ll solve it quickly. Attach the log_(date).txt file from the "log" folder (The one you posted a screenshot of) when you create the ticket. I imagine they might send you an updated firmware.

 

https://forum.brunner-innovation.swiss/forums/topic/firmware-yoke-joystick-rudder/

 

EDIT: Reconnect the stick to a different USB (and power-cycle it - disconnect/reconnect). If that doesn´t work, then I imagine it´s the units library not recognizing any valid firmware. In that case, Brunner will send you the proper files to deal with that.

Edited April 8, 2023 by zerO_crash

[tribundf]

That’s for your answer and suggestions. I tried it all last night with different usb ports. Even disconnected all my other gear.

one thing I haven’t tried is to remove the stick from the base and just hook up the base. Will try that tonight. 
 

also send Brunner an email since I couldn’t get the support ticket to submit. Just kept on loading but never submitted it. They are closed for Easter until Tuesday unfortunately

 

Would it be possible for you to send me the the firmware update file? Maybe I can force update it or so if I move that file in the firmware folder 

[tribundf]

18 hours ago, zerO_crash said:

 

It doesn´t find a valid firmware-file to update, which is somewhat weird, but no problem. It does detect your stick obviously, thus I´d get right to opening a ticket. Go to Brunner´s website, and at the bottom-right of your screen, you´ll see a blue support icon. Through that, open a ticket. Brunner is usually quick at responding, so I imagine that they´ll solve it quickly. Attach the log_(date).txt file from the "log" folder (The one you posted a screenshot of) when you create the ticket. I imagine they might send you an updated firmware.

 

https://forum.brunner-innovation.swiss/forums/topic/firmware-yoke-joystick-rudder/

 

EDIT: Reconnect the stick to a different USB (and power-cycle it - disconnect/reconnect). If that doesn´t work, then I imagine it´s the units library not recognizing any valid firmware. In that case, Brunner will send you the proper files to deal with that.

 

 

Well, turns out I am a huge idiot and didn't unzip the Brunner firmware file correctly. I was able to update it with the firmware you send over, thank you very much, but then ran into the problem of the x axis not being recognized. This was caused by my stupid way of just dragging the whole winzip file into one folder so it created the sub folder for the "settings" but did not add the actual "applicationSettings" file or the firmware into its proper folders, thus not finding a firmware to update to being with. Once I right clicked the Brunner Firmware zip file and used "extract to" it created the proper folders and file structure, updating it perfectly fine. (yes, I am writing this up in case there are other people like me that make stupid simple mistakes that costs them hours of their life!!)

 

ANYWAY..... now I have to figure out how to setup the FFB.  The feedback I am getting from the Tomcat is very weird. Trim is also off. Was able to swap the FF axis in DCS controls settings, but the trim is still off from the stick. Trimming center based on DCS controls indicator will move the stick a bit to much forward. It doesnt match 100% 

Additionally when starting a free flight or a runway takeoff on the F14, as soon as is click "fly" the stick jumps forward half its deflection. Why would the tomcat stick not be centered at start?

 

//Edit: Same behavior in the F5 or A10 as well..... Happens in a cold and dark yet, the same way as free flight etc.... Am I missing some real life physics here?

 

Will definitely have to do some research on this

Edited April 9, 2023 by tribundf

[zerO_crash]

We are practically there:
 

- Did you use uninstall BrunnerDX?

- Did you use the USB-tool (second download) to set the stick in in DirectX-mode? 
 

In DCS, all modules have reverted FFB-axis. You have to find out which ones though. First, trim up and down (find correct setting), then trim left and right (same here). You should at that point be good to go with correct-working FFB.

[tribundf]

I did not actually uninstall Brunner DX. I did have the same issue when using Brunner DX tho. 
 

yep, used the usb tool to set it to direct x and calibrated the axis to be centered properly. 
 

i did figure out the inverted ffb axis thing with trim etc. it’s all working correctly, except the stick center being too forward for those planes. 
 

will uninstall brunnerDX when I get home tonight, but have a feeling that won’t be it. I actually posted another thread about Brunner dx my same issue (that was before I got Brunners native solution worked out)

[zerO_crash]

It´s really to make sure that nothing else interferes with the Brunner (in theory, as long as you don´t run BrunnerDX, it shouldn´t interefere). So the only thing remaining then, is your stick changing its centre when you join a module, correct? If so, are you joining hot-started modules, or cold? Also, the default spring-centre of the stick (desktop, DCS main menu, etc...) is in the middle, however, it´s when you join an aircraft, that the centre displaces forward, correct? You don´t use any curves, or? Can you still trim to each maximum without peoblem?

 

(You let the stick calibrate itself, without touching it, correct? You are not using the Windows calibration tool, or?)

 

I will also add; make sure that there are no other conflicting bindings on the given function. Check pretty much everything.

 

If this doesn´t work, delete your DCS-folder under "Savedgames". That will reset all your keybindings (a new folder will be automatically created when you start DCS), but it´s worth a shot.

Edited April 9, 2023 by zerO_crash

[tribundf]

30 minutes ago, zerO_crash said:

It´s really to make sure that nothing else interferes with the Brunner (in theory, as long as you don´t run BrunnerDX, it shouldn´t interefere). So the only thing remaining then, is your stick changing its centre when you join a module, correct? If so, are you joining hot-started modules, or cold? Also, the default spring-centre of the stick (desktop, DCS main menu, etc...) is in the middle, however, it´s when you join an aircraft, that the centre displaces forward, correct? You don´t use any curves, or? Can you still trim to each maximum without peoblem?

 

(You let the stick calibrate itself, without touching it, correct? You are not using the Windows calibration tool, or?)

 

I will also add; make sure that there are no other conflicting bindings on the given function. Check pretty much everything.

 

If this doesn´t work, delete your DCS-folder under "Savedgames". That will reset all your keybindings (a new folder will be automatically created when you start DCS), but it´s worth a shot.

 

 

Correct, the stick center is the only thing that is changing. Matters not if I join a hot start or cold start mission. Only happens to the A10, F14 and F5. Hornet is fine, P51 is fine. Apache behaves perfectly with trim etc. I can also trim, yes. 

Default center is in the middle correct

I unhooked all my other gear, so nothing can interfere. 

 

Can you elaborate on the Brunner USB calibration tool? I did have to set a custom center to get it centered. When calibrating, I am moving the stick around as nothing moves on its own. What is the proper way to calibrate with the USB Config Tool. And yes, I did not calibrate through windows 

[zerO_crash]

Brunner USB Tool is only for changing stick mode, FFB-customization, and some other utilities. Brunner is self-calibrating though. Reset the custom calibration that you set to "default". Then, power-cycle the stick. As it recieves power, it will auto-calibrate on each axis (don´t touch it, or shake the base/table during the calibration, it needs to be perfectly still). As soon as that is done, all works as desired. I didn´t have to custom-calibrate mine, and all modules work splendid (I have all modules in DCS).

 

I imagine that your custom-calibration is the root of the problem.

Edited April 9, 2023 by zerO_crash

[tribundf]

That makes sense. I will try that as soon as Im home.

 

I had the same issue with Chuls BrunnerDX program tho, so I am a bit worried that my problem will persist, since BrunnerDX did not require a calibration anyway. 

We will see. I will update you as soon as I tried it all

[tribundf]

No joy unfortunately.

I let USB config tool do its thing and did not do anything to the calibration. Power cycled the stick and its all perfectly centered.  Unfortunately as soon as I enter the Cockpit the stick jumps forward again.

All things DCS are never simple I guess

 

//Edit: Ha, this keeps getting weirder and weirder! F14 Caucasus Take off mission. Sitting on the runway after starting the mission, the stick moved forward. When I hit the Autopilot engage switch, the stick slowly centers. Disengaging the autopilot leaves the stick in perfect center position....

Furthermore, I found a way to stop the stick from jumping forward as mission start. I have to turn the FF Tuning Trimmer Value to 0.  Not sure why it says trimmer value tho, since once I turn it down, I basically have no centering anymore.

Been messing with it for so long now, that I kinda lost track on what all I tried, ha. Can you tell me your settings in DCS for the Tomcat and how the Brunner behaves at mission start on Instant action, caucasus takeoff?

 

Many thanks

Edited April 10, 2023 by tribundf

[zerO_crash]

Everything works correct, the "Force Feedback Tune Panel" essentialy let´s you tune two things, the "Trimmer Force" (the force that is required to hold the stick in place - thus "Trimmer Force", and "Shake" (Shaking which occurs during high AOA-flight and other regimes of flight, in certain cases, weapon firing (guns)). The other three things it lets you adjust, is axis swapping and inverting. 

 

It´s logical that when you turn down the "Trimmer Force", get no stick movement and lack of force of the stick, as you pretty much disable the general force of the stick. I always put my forces at 100% "Trimmer Force" and 100% "Shake" to have maximum effects and a stick that replicates a real one (in terms of force needed to move it).

 

As to the FFB, it seems that everything is working on your side. I cannot check it right now, as I have framerate issues (and general performance) since 2.8. Besides, I´ll be getting myself a new workstation-level computer soon. With that said, while I have all the modules, I (being partly Russian), fly practically only Russian aircraft, only a few western ones (Ah-64D and Mirage 2000C-5. I have flown UH-1H, F-16, F-18C, and some other before, but not anymore). Thus, I cannot really give you any specific feedback on what it might be, however, your stick seems to work properly. With that said, I have jumped a couple of times into the cockpit of F-14A and B to have a look at it and some new features, and my stick was perfectly center (hot-started on the ground).

 

I will voice this, go through your DCS-settings and make sure of the following:

- No curves are set up, you should have pure linear input.

- DCS is setup with "Simulation" settings, physics specifically.

- "Special" settings of each module that you fly (make sure automatic trim is not engaged for example).

 

Also, make a copy of your "saved games" folder, then delete it. Let DCS create a new one. See if it persists. Finally, go to the specific module forums, and start a thread with regards to this.

 

As said, it sounds like it is working properly for you, I am 100% sure of it. If anything, it´s most likely a system in the module or mechanic, that displaces the stick. When you spawn with a module in air, it will be trimmed for that flight level and speed. Hotstarted on the ground however, it will be neutral with controls (trims, etc...). I know for a fact that Mirage F1 has had some initial trim faults (cold aircraft had wrong trim setup), however other than that, it has been correct with pretty much any other module. 

 

If you still don´t get it to work, tell me, and I´ll get you over to a Discord channel specifically for HOTAS and Brunner CLS, where I´m sure that you´ll find other Brunner owners who actually fly western aircraft. They will give you input on what it might be. However, I´ll state it again, your setup is working. This is most likely a system/mechanic or setup-thing with the aircraft. If FFB works with one module, it works across with other ones. Thus, focus on the module, rather than your FFB. Aircraft will react differently with/without AP, thus you will see different behaviours with different systems engaged. That´s how real aircraft work, obviously. A Ka-50 flies completely differently with Flight Director engaged, vs. without. You can even trim it differently, because heading hold won´t be engaged (angular stabilization still "on"). This, just to give you an idea. That´s what´s so great about it. Realism for life!

 

One last thing, zero out the trim in your aircraft (set all trim-tabs to neutral), use your in-cockpit instruments to verify that they are neutral. If the stick is centered, you know that it’s a aircraft mechanic.

Edited April 13, 2023 by zerO_crash

[tribundf]

Yep, my friend, I believe you are right. I guess my total lack of real world reference and always having used a non FFB stick has me all messed up.

I still dont grasp it 100%, but I am getting there. It is definitely not Brunner issue, as the Apache etc. works 100% fine as intended.

 

Sorry for having wasted your time like this buddy. I sure do appreciate your feedback and help for my ignorance!

[zerO_crash]

No problem brother, sometimes it might be difficult to find the culprit of a longstanding issue. It´s my pleasure to help. Take your time, figure out the F-14, see how it goes.

 

Join Discord on this channel: https://discord.gg/szqaJE7

 

There is a Brunner section lower, there is actually a guy talking about pulling out his Brunner and having issues with F-14 (I imagine it´s you?). When I get my new pc, I´ll be getting my clan ready and invite people from Brunner as well. One does join a family when owning a Brunner. Tell me if you get it figured out, until then, good luck, and fly high! )

Edited April 10, 2023 by zerO_crash

[AirAssassin]

On 4/8/2023 at 4:50 PM, tribundf said:

ANYWAY..... now I have to figure out how to setup the FFB.  The feedback I am getting from the Tomcat is very weird. Trim is also off. Was able to swap the FF axis in DCS controls settings, but the trim is still off from the stick. Trimming center based on DCS controls indicator will move the stick a bit to much forward. It doesnt match 100% 

Additionally when starting a free flight or a runway takeoff on the F14, as soon as is click "fly" the stick jumps forward half its deflection. Why would the tomcat stick not be centered at start?

 

//Edit: Same behavior in the F5 or A10 as well..... Happens in a cold and dark yet, the same way as free flight etc.... Am I missing some real life physics here?

 

Will definitely have to do some research on this

@zerO_crash @tribundf   Hello old thread,  im getting back into DCS and have a CLS MKII,  I'm getting the same odd forward stick when starting the flight in the 14,  especially when airspeed picks up, ive got to trim nose down practically all the way forward, i can barley reach the stick!  Wanted to know if this was resolved in any way 

[zerO_crash]

On 3/28/2025 at 5:59 AM, AirAssassin said:

@zerO_crash @tribundf   Hello old thread,  im getting back into DCS and have a CLS MKII,  I'm getting the same odd forward stick when starting the flight in the 14,  especially when airspeed picks up, ive got to trim nose down practically all the way forward, i can barley reach the stick!  Wanted to know if this was resolved in any way 

Welcome back AirAssassin

 

Sorry for late reply, business and travel on my part - as always

 

I'm not flying the F-14 personally, but wonder if it wasn't discussed in the Discord channel linked above some time ago. I seem to remember that the F-14 stick is actually tilted somewhat forward IRL, and that this could actually be a detail programmed in by Heatblur. Just to be sure, I'd recommend you join us in Discord, as most of the guys there fly western aircraft. You'll definitely find someone who flies the F-14 who can give you an exact answer on the issue in question (my expertise lies with Soviet/Russian aircraft). 
 

HB has FFB hardware for some time now, so if this isn't resolved, I infer that it points even more to everything working correctly. 
 

Two basic recommendations from me:

 

- Check any other module to see if the stick centres properly.

- Make sure that you have the newest Brunner software installed for the base (you'll find it on the Brunner forums).

 

If both of the above are in the green, then I'm fairly sure it has to do with that physically relaxed displacement of the F-14 stick that I mentioned earlier.