Cruise Missile 'Fire At Point' targets same exact point regardless of 'ZONE RADIUS'

[TEMPEST.114]

Here is a mission with a 3000ft radius, yet every one of the 16 cruise missiles hits the same spot on the ground. 

Whatever 'random' position generator within the radius function you're using is not working at all.

This means it's impossible to shell a large area with cruise missiles as they will only ever hit the same pin point position.

Ticon.miz

[funkyfranky]

Yes, that's indeed very annoying. I have reported that years ago and also found other reports here about the very same issue e.g. 

 

[TEMPEST.114]

15 minutes ago, funkyfranky said:

Yes, that's indeed very annoying. I have reported that years ago and also found other reports here about the very same issue e.g. 

 

So is there any way around this? Any work around? Anything in scripting?

[SUNTSAG]

The BGM 109-C is a precision weapon with a built in CEP of 10m (32 feet). It has guidance systems of GPS inertial navigation and terrain following radar. It is NOT an area bombardment weapon and is designed to eliminate specific and known targets or threats. Hence the reason why, “RADIUS”, does not apply to this weapon.

Due to its precision nature, you must allocate multiple targets via fire at point; if you are trying to destroy numerous targets in a given area. The attached mission attempts to replicate that.

cruisemissiles.miz

[funkyfranky]

Yes, to be fair, it also states that in the DCS manual p.330

Quote

ZONE RADIUS. This parameter affects the distribution of fire: artillery systems will shell the entire area of the zone, whereas missiles will hit only the center of the zone.

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by funkyfranky

[TEMPEST.114]

7 hours ago, funkyfranky said:

Yes, to be fair, it also states that in the DCS manual p.330

 

 

Ah. Good to know. Perhaps the ME can be adapted to hide that parameter for that weapon type so ME newbies like me won’t get fooled into thinking it applies? 

7 hours ago, SUNTSAG said:

The BGM 109-C is a precision weapon with a built in CEP of 10m (32 feet). It has guidance systems of GPS inertial navigation and terrain following radar. It is NOT an area bombardment weapon and is designed to eliminate specific and known targets or threats. Hence the reason why, “RADIUS”, does not apply to this weapon.

Due to its precision nature, you must allocate multiple targets via fire at point; if you are trying to destroy numerous targets in a given area. The attached mission attempts to replicate that.

cruisemissiles.miz 10.79 kB · 1 download

Thank you @SUNTSAGthat was my next problem to fix, how to target multiple things in an area of effect…

I wonder if this can be done as simply in script?

[TEMPEST.114]

One more question.

If I wanted to use the Encyclopaedia to find the min / max range of these weapons and their designiation / TypeName - how do I do that, when there isn't anything identifying them in the Mission Editor? 

Sorry if it's a dumb question but I know aircraft and flying - I know nothing about other ordinance or ships / ground units. I'm trying to learn but it's a steep curve and I'm struggling on connecting the dots...

It's just that the Encyclopaedia says the Ticon fires SLCM SSM Tomahawk, but that 'name' isn't in the weapons list... so...

Edited February 26, 2023 by Elphaba

[Chump]

12 hours ago, Elphaba said:

If I wanted to use the Encyclopaedia to find the min / max range of these weapons and their designiation / TypeName - how do I do that, when there isn't anything identifying them in the Mission Editor? 

[...]

It's just that the Encyclopaedia says the Ticon fires SLCM SSM Tomahawk, but that 'name' isn't in the weapons list... so...

 

The encyclopedia says:

Quote

Armament: SLCM/SSM Tomahawk, 2x4 SSM Harpoon,

I'm assuming that it means the BGM-109B Tomahawk, which it pulls the data from [DCS]\MissionEditor\data\scripts\Enc\Weapon\BGM-109B.txt.

There is nothing connecting this to it's typeName that I can see in the exposed LUA files. Maybe someone else knows where this link is located?

 

[Grimes]

On 2/26/2023 at 11:39 AM, Chump said:

There is nothing connecting this to it's typeName that I can see in the exposed LUA files. Maybe someone else knows where this link is located?

It is an older missile so it was in Scripts/Database/ and subfolders, but that is no longer accessible. The encyclopedia cannot be relied upon to correlate precisely with in game performance. The encyclopedia says the BGM-109B has a range of 480 km, but it is actually limited to 1700 km. 

The best way to get approximate performance is via getAmmo() on a unit carrying the weapon or getDesc() on the weapon itself once it is shot. For example here is the range value for a Tomahawk via getAmmo() on an Arleigh Burke. https://github.com/mrSkortch/DCS-miscScripts/blob/master/ObjectDB/Ships/USS_Arleigh_Burke_IIa.lua#L195

There are plenty of caveats to this though. The rangeMaxAltMax and rangeMaxAltMin are more reliable with ground/sea launched munitions compared to A2A or A2G weapons. For example a KH-58 has the same value for both at 250000, admittedly this is a 4 year old file I'm looking at so it my have changed. Point is at minimal altitude a KH-58 is not going to make it 250km, nor detect a target to shoot at that range. A Su-24 at speed and altitude on the other hand could possibly launch one that far or at least over 150km. The encyclopedia for reference lists 70km as the range. Best to think of it as these are the max ranges that the AI are allowed to shoot at, but have other calculations that may force the range to go lower. If it is an aircraft then they will fly to get into range. 

[TEMPEST.114]

3 hours ago, Grimes said:

The encyclopedia cannot be relied upon to correlate precisely with in game performance

Kinda pointless then as an encyclopaedia then eh? /facepalm

Edited March 3, 2023 by Elphaba

[Grimes]

49 minutes ago, Elphaba said:

Kinda pointless then as an encyclopaedia then eh? /facepalm

 

It is just the way it is. A raw text file that gets translated into multiple languages. Would be nice if it hooked into live game data but it doesn't. 

[TEMPEST.114]

It’s a game and code. It doesn’t have to be anything that the coders don’t want it to be.

 

If they actually cared it would be actually useful.