Just a few questions

[Cichlidash]

Hi congratulations on producing what looks to be a fantastic flight simulator.

 

I am thinking about buying this product after it becomes available on Steam as I wont have anything to do with a product that uses Starforce unless I can really help it. I was wondering though does this game use Dx10 at all and will their be an update in the future to make use of multi core cpu's?

I am also wondering just how playable this simulator actually is I know you have an easy mode but in the normal setting is this beast of a helicopter actually flyable to anyone other than the hardcore enthusiast?

Also if I wait for the boxed version will it come with a printed manual? Will we get old school cardboard cut out keyboard overlays :)?

[rapid]

starforce is loaded on download as well as the DVD version. the download version will not use DVD checks.

game supports Directx9.

in the future multi core will be supported althought you can use the affinty programe to run cmore than one core.

instant action is very easy.

boxed version has no printed manual only pdf...................manual will be available to buy very soon.

[GGTharos]

I am thinking about buying this product after it becomes available on Steam as I wont have anything to do with a product that uses Starforce unless I can really help it.

 

It will likely have SF anyway if/when it appears on steam.

 

I was wondering though does this game use Dx10 at all and will their be an update in the future to make use of multi core cpu's?

It does not use DX10, and yes there will be updates and upgrades to the series in the future.

 

I am also wondering just how playable this simulator actually is I know you have an easy mode but in the normal setting is this beast of a helicopter actually flyable to anyone other than the hardcore enthusiast?

Get it and find out ;)

A lot of people new to flight simulation have been managing, but there is a learning curve.

 

Also if I wait for the boxed version will it come with a printed manual? Will we get old school cardboard cut out keyboard overlays :)?

No printed manual; that will come separately for those who wish to buy it. I suspect no cut-out keyboard overlays either ... the cockpit's there for you to click on ;)

[Cichlidash]

Thanks for the replies guys I am so tempted to get this game right now but I will wait and see how you work the Steam version I hope you go for their copy protection as I really dont want SF on my system and am a bit shocked that you would feel the need for SF and Steam. The Dvd version I would expect to have come with SF but if it came down to the choice of download without a manual or retail with a manual then I would go for the retail product I remember just how good some of these manuals used to be to read like what you got with Falcon back in the Atari St and Amiga days. Not such a fan of Pdf kind of hard to take that to the reading room :D.

 

I would expect flying to have a learning curve to it, in fact I would be disapointed if flying was too easy more of a issue would be finding the helicopter almost impossible to fly after a lot of practice.

 

I will also have to look into finding a good left handed flight stick at a reasonable price as well which might not be such an easy find.

 

Still I really do like the level of development that seems to have gone into this product and if its half as good as it sounds it would be a most worthy investment I just hope that SF would disapear in the steam version but you make it sound like it wont :cry:

[GGTharos]

Thanks for the replies guys I am so tempted to get this game right now but I will wait and see how you work the Steam version I hope you go for their copy protection as I really dont want SF on my system and am a bit shocked that you would feel the need for SF and Steam.

 

Not releasing it with SF diminishes the ability of SF (or any other CP system) to protect the game, so don't feel so shocked. ;)

 

The Dvd version I would expect to have come with SF but if it came down to the choice of download without a manual or retail with a manual then I would go for the retail product I remember just how good some of these manuals used to be to read like what you got with Falcon back in the Atari St and Amiga days. Not such a fan of Pdf kind of hard to take that to the reading room :D.

 

The printed manual is too expensive to provide with the retail product for just $50, so it is being offered separately for this reason. :)

 

I would expect flying to have a learning curve to it, in fact I would be disapointed if flying was too easy more of a issue would be finding the helicopter almost impossible to fly after a lot of practice.

 

That is impossible, unless you're utterly inept :D

 

I will also have to look into finding a good left handed flight stick at a reasonable price as well which might not be such an easy find.

 

You might find it interesting to know that IRL they make us right handed peeps fly with our left ... :P

 

Still I really do like the level of development that seems to have gone into this product and if its half as good as it sounds it would be a most worthy investment I just hope that SF would disapear in the steam version but you make it sound like it wont :cry:

 

SF isn't going anywhere, sorry :)

However this product uses a driver-less version of SF.

[Guest]

if it came down to the choice of download without a manual or retail with a manual then I would go for the retail product

 

Two things:

 

1) The retail version will NOT come with a printed manual (the than the quickstart guide). The printed manual will be a separate purchase

 

2) The download version of Starforce is not the one people generally have a problem with. It does not install any drivers, and is really no different than Steam or any other regular download software based protection systems. It does not leave anything running on your system when the game is not running. The DVD version of Starforce is the one that installs a driver that has been blamed for causing system problems.

 

EDIT: bah, beat me to it.

[WynnTTr]

 

I would expect flying to have a learning curve to it, in fact I would be disapointed if flying was too easy more of a issue would be finding the helicopter almost impossible to fly after a lot of practice.

 

There is a learning curve, but the difference with this game is that it's part of the fun. Besides, it's not as steep as some people would think. But these types of games require a time commitment and a bit of patience. You can't expect to load up and then after half an hour, fly around popping over hills blasting tanks.

This is probably the most realistic heli sim in the mainstream market - expect a learning curve. But as GGTharos stated, unless you're totally incapable of absorbing new information, then, after a lot of practice, you'll be flying quite well.

In fact, I guarantee you that you'll be laughing at yourself when you think about how you flew starting out.

 

I will also have to look into finding a good left handed flight stick at a reasonable price as well which might not be such an easy find.

 

Hope you find a good south paw HOTAS - unfortunately I don't know of any. You'll probably have to look at some custom mods. No doubt they'd cost more than a standard HOTAS, but having one will certainly increase the immersion factor. In fact, after getting mine, I dont' know how I flew without one.

[Cichlidash]

Their is a huge difference between Steams copy protection and SF and while I can totally respect any company wanting and needing too protect its game I am very reluctent and so is a lot of people to ever allow SF to be installed on their computers.

SF has a reputation of being Malware with good reason (because it is) and has in the past caused a lot of issues with peoples hardware and been blamed for causing hardware to even fail. Even without all the technical issues associated with SF the companies buisness practices of posting links to other peoples software for illegal download because they did not use their copy protection system does not sit well with me and would hate to be responcible for helping buisness to continue to function even if they sorted out all the issues they have had in the past with the way their system works.

 

While very tempted by this product I think I can resist purchasing for now and hope that in the future you will be able to find a copy protection system that works for both you and us end users with a company with a much better reputation and buisness practices than SF.

[deviletk]

This CP discussion have been going on for too long in the past my friend. Its old news nowadays and no one seems to have any problems with it. SF has evolved like everything else. Ive talked to and read thread after thread of happy pilots here, and i havent seen anyone complaining about the CP busting up computers or running weird files. Then you should also know that it was a "storm" here before BS was launched about this matter.

 

You dont have to worry about malware etc. I imagine people that have experienced things like that and complained about it in the past are just people that doesnt understand computers very well. I see them everyday in my line of work saying things are broken or doesnt work. Its just "crap behind the wheel" so to speak. ;)

 

Dont worry mate. You can safely get the best sim of the year and start enjoying it to the max.

 

Just my 2 cents anyway. :)

[Guest]

Their is a huge difference between Steams copy protection and SF...SF has a reputation of being Malware with good reason (because it is) and has in the past caused a lot of issues with peoples hardware and been blamed for causing hardware to even fail.

 

Like I said above, it is the DVD version of SF that has a past reputation for causing problems. This was due to the protection driver that SF loaded onto the system. Because of the protection driver, I will not install SF DVD based protected software on my system.

 

The download version of SF, which is what Black Shark uses, DOES NOT install a protection driver on the system. It only operates when the game is actually running, just like any other software based protection like Steam. In short, there is no "huge difference" between SF download version and any other protection scheme. I am not aware of any reports of system problems caused by the SF download version.

 

Now, I agree fully with you that SF has done some questionable things in the past, and if you choose not to buy the product because of those past practices, that is your right as a consumer. On the other hand, my view is that this simulations of this caliber are so rare that I am not going to let things like that bother me too much. Hell, I am sure if I dig a bit, I could find some pretty damn shady practices used by practically every company that I use a product from (Microsoft, Sony, Dell, perhaps?). In addition, IMHO I think it is quite unlikely that Black Shark will ever be sold without SF. There has never been a SF free version of Flaming Cliffs, so I don't see why they would do one for Black Shark.

Edited January 31, 2009 by wombat778

[WynnTTr]

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but ever since I've started browsing these forums, (which isn't that long, but as any with any new forum, I click and read everthing), I haven't seen a thread actually complaining about the BS SF.

 

Sure there are concern threads such as the OP, but every person (that I've seen) that has the game or is posting about the game has not posted any negative effects of SF.

The only threads about SF that I've noticed are the ones come from those that haven't bought the game and who rely on past reputations.

 

Granted, it was a deserved reputation, but I gotta admit, SF has learnt and evolved - it isn't the same copy protection it was. I was one of the crowd (like everyone else) that thought SF was sh*t, but didn't think twice about installing BS. And since BS comes with it, then that's the price I pay to play this amazing sim.

 

OP - if you really intend to not give BS a go based on past reputation, then it really is your loss. If you're any type of simmer, then you cannot afford to pass this one up.

Tell me, did the old SF actually do anything to your machine, or did you just hear it through the grapevine?

[GGTharos]

Their is a huge difference between Steams copy protection and SF and while I can totally respect any company wanting and needing too protect its game I am very reluctent and so is a lot of people to ever allow SF to be installed on their computers.

SF has a reputation of being Malware with good reason (because it is) and has in the past caused a lot of issues with peoples hardware and been blamed for causing hardware to even fail.

 

1. We're not interested in a discussion about SF on this forum. We're well aware of its history.

 

2. It isn't malware.

 

3. It isn't going away.

 

4. They've already suffered financial damage for whatever was in the past.

 

 

While very tempted by this product I think I can resist purchasing for now and hope that in the future you will be able to find a copy protection system that works for both you and us end users with a company with a much better reputation and buisness practices than SF.

 

5. SF seems to be working mostly for everyone right now.

 

6. Discussion about SF is over.

 

Sorry to hear you bought into the 'SF is malware' rep game.

[Cichlidash]

I must admite that a lot of the references of Star-Force is based on earlier versions but once bitten twice shy and really I have to seriously think about allowing anything with the reputation that SF has onto my computer anything that installed without users knowledge or permission alters the way that peoples OS works and seems to have caused a lot of issues with computer hardware perhaps even destroying optical drives and even remained unknowing behind after the product it came with was removed sounds and is acting in the same maner as a maleware so I pick to call it maleware this is not buying into some rumor spread on the internet it is how SF acted. Now we have a none driver version which maybe does not have the same issues I would say that Black Shark is a bit new of a game to know if their is issues with it yet or not hopefully not.

 

Wombat788 seems to hit the head on the nail with his post in that it is almost impossible to deal with companies that have not done some questionable things in the past, especially for us with windows based OS.

 

I am also sorry if bringing SF to the forum if it has been spoke about in length before as I am new here I was not in on any conversations on the past to do with this and am not in the positon to start replacing hardware because of copy protection causing harm to my computer.

[Guest]

Think about it this way though. 1) even the old DVD version of Starforce with the protection driver had an extremely small (if any) chance of causing problems with optical drives, 2) Black Shark uses a non-DVD version that has no driver, and no one has reported any problems with optical drives, and 3) EVEN in the extremely unlikely event that some problem with an optical drive were to occur, new optical drives cost about $20.00 (unless you have a blu-ray drive or something).

 

In short, you probably have a higher chance of being struck by lightning or being eaten by a pack of killer kangaroos, then you do of having to replace your $20.00 optical drive. Given those odds, and low consequences involved, you really shouldn't worry about it. Live a little, buy the game. You will be glad you did. :thumbup:

Edited February 1, 2009 by wombat778

[WynnTTr]

In short, you probably have a higher chance of being struck by lightning or being eaten by a pack of killer kangaroos, then you do of having to replace your $20.00 optical drive. Given those odds, and low consequences involved, you really shouldn't worry about it. Live a little, buy the game. You will be glad you did. :thumbup:

Mate, we got Dundee, crocs, sharks and... drop bears! Killer kangaroos hop through our streets at night regularly. Tourists have been warned. :smilewink:

[Cichlidash]

Man those drop bears are so cute I just love those things and was amazed to hear about them dropping on peoples heads, still dont know if I actually belive that one though. I think it could be one of those urban myths that Austrialians play on us Brit's.

Another quick question before I purchase is this game I hear was ment to be a bit cheaper than normal games but it works out at £35 under the current weak pound to dollar conversion which is about £5 more than normal games especially on shelf prices. Is the game going to be cheaper when released on Dvd for Britain? Not like £35 is a bank breaker or anything but also have to factor in trying to locate a joystick :joystick: to go with it. Then again I do have to think do I want to wait too March to play when a few other good (hopefully) games come out.

Either way hopefully I will be flying (crashing) soon

[Coolhnd1]

Just one more note in favor of purchasing this game. I'm one of those that think Steam is far worse than SF or any other Copy Protection scheme but if this game were only available via steam I would swallow my reluctance and still purchase this game. It's that good!

 

Oh and yes, a HOSTAS is a tremendous help in playing the game as is Trackir so good luck with your search. You can get by however with just a joystick until you can afford to buy the HOSTAS.

[Cichlidash]

The Hotas really is nice but very ouchy in the price department that things almost as costly as my graphics card (4870) also the big let down for me is that its for right handed people. I would have to be very into flight sims to want to spend that on a joystick but it does look to be really good quality. I guess that its going to be a Statek Cyborg of some version as they seem to be the only joystick I can spot at the moment that allow for left hand use. I might wait and see about getting both the game and joystick around the same time as I need to wait for a couple of checks to clear first. This would give me time to see if Black Shark does get a Steam release or not.

Oh well gives me time to read the manual :)

[Guest]

One other option is here: http://snomhf.exofire.net/

 

This guy appears to sell modified versions of the CH Hotas for left handed use, though they are quite pricey. Still I believe the CH sticks are excellent quality.

 

Also, if you are just looking for a left handed joystick, the CH Flightstick Pro might be a good choice, and you can pick it up for under $65.

Edited February 1, 2009 by wombat778

[Cichlidash]

The flightstick pro costs £100 here so around $145! :mad:

Statek Cyborg is about £30 so about $44

Not that I am saying its in the same class but the price difference will put it more into my budget range. The pound has lost so much against the dollar at the moment thats why I was wondering how much the dvd release would be over here as the IGN review mentioned how cheap the game was compared to normal game releases but at the moment the game is actually more expensive than a standard game. Not that I actually mind paying £35 for it, if its anywhere near as deep or as well developed as the reviews are saying but if its released over here for say £25 then thats an extra £10 for the joystick I will need to invest in.

Is their many online players at the moment I can make a fool out of myself in front off? Online play is free right?

[159th_Viper]

......

Is their many online players at the moment I can make a fool out of myself in front off? Online play is free right?

 

 

There are a couple of us and yeah - Online Play is Free :)