New to DCS & VR

[Toastfrenzy]

Hi,

I'm looking for a VR head set that will be future proof and be as good as it can be , FPS, FOV etc. trouble is I don't know much about them or the software that's required to use in conjunction with the headset - I thought you bought the headset ran the installer opened your game, configure and away you go. After reading this forum that appears far from actual reality. There isn't a definitive instruction set as everyone seems to have a different approach, budget, wants, FOTM etc.  

If there's a thread\threads on here that someone can link that gives ideas etc.

I've used TrackIR and other head tracking ways in past sims, started with EAW etc back in '98 or so but have been out of the Flight Sim game a few years now. Picked up a WT Gaijin habit (bit of a half way house) a few years ago and have maybe reached the limit of my one game fits all my needs. Now possibly looking for the next addition so thought I'd give DCS a try.

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Toastfrenzy

[Phantom711]

Don`t get too intimdated...just like you have to configure and adjust your TIR, you have to do the same with a VR headset.

I personally have a HP Reverb G2, which is probably a very common headset amongst flightsimmers since it offers a very good resolution and als with regards to value for money. 

Maybe start off here:

Thud's VR4DCS

 

cheers

[Toastfrenzy]

Thanks, had a look at the link, all decent info, some outdated but still OK.

I read somewhere that HP are withdrawing from the VR market soon?

[SharpeXB]

21 hours ago, Phantom711 said:

Don`t get too intimdated...just like you have to configure and adjust your TIR, you have to do the same with a VR headset.

I wouldn’t put those in the same league. TrackIR is literally a plug and play device. It doesn’t require much if any tweaking. Plus it doesn’t require you to adjust or tune any of your graphic settings. VR on the other hand…

Edited March 19, 2023 by SharpeXB

[Willie Nelson]

You're going to have a lot of fun, it is the only way to sim in my view. It is involved but Google and Youtube will be your friend. 

I think that the Reverb is a great place to start, I have one also, however it is certainly not "future proof" for that I would consider holding off and condisering the Pimax Crystal which was due to release in the third quarter of last year. Some reviewers have them in hand now albeit not feature complete and there are some genuine questions that need to be answered or addressed in terms of battery pack requrirements even while connected to PC in addition to realistic system requirements, particularly CPU and GPU for DCS (very demanding in VR although less so with multi threading now available in it's early iteration).

For both of the above you will need a decent system, I get great performance with my 12900KF and 3080Ti and a HP Reverb, I've had both G1 and G2 (Theyre very close in terms of everything but the tracking is better in the G2)

[Dangerzone]

14 hours ago, Toastfrenzy said:

Thanks, had a look at the link, all decent info, some outdated but still OK.

I read somewhere that HP are withdrawing from the VR market soon?

There's 2 problems with HP. First one is that their G2 is on the older side now - been out since 2020 so it's a couple of years old, there's probably newer tech around.

Second problem with HP is their cables. They're not designed to last - and in many cases can be difficult (or impossible) to get a replacement depending on where you live, once they're out of warranty. Many people have been burned by HP and swore to never get another headset - not because the headset sucks, but their after warranty support sucks. A VR headset becomes a paperweight because we can't replace a detachable cable. 

Don't get me wrong. The HP VR headset itself is a nice headset - but if you were going to buy the G2 - I'd get the extended 3 year warranty plus confirmation that it includes replacing the cable before making the push and then expect to get 3 years out of it - anything beyond being a bonus, not an expectation. 

Don't be putoff. VR is an obsticle course that's for sure - but honestly - VR in DCS - I really was saying "WOW" like a kid for the first time when I first experienced it. It is truly something remarkable and worth pursuing and going through the tinkering if you have the finances. Things have come a long way too. Since OpenXR is now native with DCS - and you can bypass steam and use WMR natively - it has helped a lot to simplify issues, and also help on the performance aspect as well. 

Just realise that VR is about compromise. It will never be as good graphics as 2D (you're doubling up the rendering resources for starters), so you have to dial back a bit in order to enjoy that 3D experience - but at the same token - there are a lot of VR users (including myself) that couldn't contemplate going back to 2D after experiencing 3D. It is truly that much different.

Just be aware VR will spoil you. (Literally) - coz if you can't have VR - you may never enjoy 2D flightsimming as much as you have in the past again. 

[freehand]

29 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

There's 2 problems with HP. First one is that their G2 is on the older side now - been out since 2020 so it's a couple of years old, there's probably newer tech around.

Second problem with HP is their cables. They're not designed to last - and in many cases can be difficult (or impossible) to get a replacement depending on where you live, once they're out of warranty. Many people have been burned by HP and swore to never get another headset - not because the headset sucks, but their after warranty support sucks. A VR headset becomes a paperweight because we can't replace a detachable cable. 

Don't get me wrong. The HP VR headset itself is a nice headset - but if you were going to buy the G2 - I'd get the extended 3 year warranty plus confirmation that it includes replacing the cable before making the push and then expect to get 3 years out of it - anything beyond being a bonus, not an expectation. 

Don't be putoff. VR is an obsticle course that's for sure - but honestly - VR in DCS - I really was saying "WOW" like a kid for the first time when I first experienced it. It is truly something remarkable and worth pursuing and going through the tinkering if you have the finances. Things have come a long way too. Since OpenXR is now native with DCS - and you can bypass steam and use WMR natively - it has helped a lot to simplify issues, and also help on the performance aspect as well. 

Just realise that VR is about compromise. It will never be as good graphics as 2D (you're doubling up the rendering resources for starters), so you have to dial back a bit in order to enjoy that 3D experience - but at the same token - there are a lot of VR users (including myself) that couldn't contemplate going back to 2D after experiencing 3D. It is truly that much different.

Just be aware VR will spoil you. (Literally) - coz if you can't have VR - you may never enjoy 2D flightsimming as much as you have in the past again. 

So after reading all your reply, which headset  are you recommending the op ?

Edited March 20, 2023 by freehand

[Dangerzone]

I'm not recommending any particular headset in my previous reply - I'm in a similar boat trying to figure out what to move to myself. Just sharing what I've experienced and what I've found in my journey so he too has some information & if he decides to go with HP - has the info he needs to manage expectations. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Dangerzone

[Toastfrenzy]

Thanks for all the advice thus far - as for recommendations not really after a buy this because xyz more after a generalisation\pointers\gottchas where by I can make an informed choice overall. As really personal choice is, well, personal.

I've just googled HP G2 cable problems and there are a lot of unhappy customers out there, along with warranty issues too - that's a good shout as there's no way I want to be involved with issues like that. Doesn't matter if the product is the best out there, I've learned if there's no support etc then the product is worthless.

I've not set a budget yet as it ranges from £500 to £1800+ looking at the Pimax offerings - but the weight of these at 800 - 900grammes nearly a kilo on your head - not sure how this would feel and is slightly putting me off these along with the cost!

Also, if the headset is not offered from a UK distributor with a UK warranty then I'm not buying that particular headset - been there and not doing that again.  

 

Started using the Android Smooth Track app with opentrack on my PC again, works really well, though still have to keep tuning as I go. Was a minimal cost @ £10 a few years ago so for a DCS try before you buy it's working out really good.

Had a few flights in the free P-51. All good there but I have forgotten how many key binds are needed - clickable cockpit helps. I'm just not used to managing the engine, prop and other systems after many years in WT.

How is all this managed with a VR headset - as keyboard is not visible - just with key binds or something else?

I've only a 16000M at the moment, sold all my CH products a long time ago.

I'm sure to pull the trigger on the 109, Spit, P-51, Channel map and asset pack pretty soon as it's 50% of for new joiners.  I wonder if this will qualify me for the reduced price Normandy 2 map that's on it's way soon?

Edited March 20, 2023 by Toastfrenzy

[Dangerzone]

14 hours ago, Toastfrenzy said:

Thanks for all the advice thus far - as for recommendations not really after a buy this because xyz more after a generalisation\pointers\gottchas where by I can make an informed choice overall. As really personal choice is, well, personal.

That's my intent with my original reply. Not to tell you what to do - just give you information to work through with your own priority list. 

 

Quote

How is all this managed with a VR headset - as keyboard is not visible - just with key binds or something else? I've only a 16000M at the moment, sold all my CH products a long time ago.

There's a combination of options that I went with to overcome the VR side of things.

First one is a decent HOTAS. I make use not only of the HOTAS buttons, but also the MODIFIER option in DCS as well to expand the buttons to do more than one thing each. For a WW2 bird you'll probably do fine with your 16000M and mouse for the time being (even in VR) as there's less stuff to deal with compared to say the A10 which I'd probably be suggesting otherwise.

If you do decide to upgrade your HOTAS down the track, I would recommend checking out VIRPIL and VKB. They're expensive, but they're built very well, and are very customisable. If you're tempted by the Logitech X56 please check out reviews by a lot of people. (I've had one - ended up having all sorts of issues with phantom signals (switches triggering when I haven't touched them) amongst other issues where I basically considered it a sated purchase. Again - not saying don't consider it - just research all the issues associated with it, and make a decision according to your preferences. 

Second thing that has helped me out has been Voice Attack. This allows you to bind keystrokes (or even a virtual joystick) to spoken commands, so I can execute some less-often actions with my voice.  Coupled with that can be VAICOM PRO (but honestly - it's a lot of tweaking with VAICOM, so I'd suggest start with Voice attack only first and see if you like using voice commands for some things). 

And lastly - I use the keyboard and mouse. Mouse a lot (for clicking cockpit things that I don't have to click often such as raising/lowering wings in the hornet - things that can be done while on the deck and it's OK to take attention off other things). It's weird to start with not seeing the keyboard but it doesn't take too long to get a feel for where things are, although I will admit I use the keyboard a lot less than I used to as HOTAS (with modifiers), Voice Attack and VAICOM Pro are all assets I lean a lot more on now. 

FWIW I settled with a VKB T-Rudder + VKB - Modern Combat Grip + Virpil CM3 Throttle setup for my peripherals. 

[Toastfrenzy]

Ah thanks for the memory jolt, I have paid and used Voice Attack a few years ago. I'll see if I can resurrect that as that'll help.

Seen other peoples experiences with the X56 and doubt I'll go there. Did have a look already at Virpil, VKB and Winwing but I'm getting drawn to the cost effective function over form - TH Warthog Hotas set. There are some decent new deals on this "old" set up. Did take a look at CH Products as had their Fighter stick, throttle and pedals before. Nothing has evolved there at all and I won't be going back to them. I did have to go through 3 fighter sticks and it was a pain dealing with CH Products then having to liaise with a UK distributor for actual replacement. 

Though I'm getting drawn to the Varjo Aero headset. Seems to be well supported and reading the issues that have been posted all have been resolved in a couple of days. There, of course, maybe the bad cases that I've not seen\read.

Integration with DCS, seems easy enough, OpenXR, OpenXR tools. A good bit of set up help in this forum. I don't use Steam at all so I don't think this will be an issue. No onboard audio which though not a problem, I defiantly don't want to use in ear buds so guess I could still use the headset mic set up I currently use over the top. Looks a bit weird, seen a few others using this way....

I'll have to plump for the warthog if I decide on the Aero for sure!

 

Edit, got my VA licence emailed through, bought back in 2015 version 1.1.1

Edited March 22, 2023 by Toastfrenzy

[Eclipse]

Good luck on the journey. Once you go VR you'll wonder how you went without it this long and you'll not want to go back, even if there are some compromises. 

One thing to add, for controls - I have everything that is on the HOTAS in reality mapped to my controllers, and some other commonly used items or items that are hard or finicky to manipulate in the cockpit. For almost everything else, I use my VR controllers to point and click, flip switches, turn dials, etc. I use the mouse for things in a few cases (like the rearm/refueling window) because it's faster. But for most cockpit controls I use my actual VR controllers. I have one sitting to the left of my throttle and one to the right of my stick, in quick and easy reach. 

Just wanted to make sure you knew they are an option.