DCS with a Pimax Crystal OMG

[dsc106]

Also: i see quad views also works with reverb G2 in fixed foveating rendering mode. Is it worth using? Will it perform better even in fixed mode VS the FFR baked into the openXR toolkit?

[j9murphy]

another post pointed out that for FFR OpenXR toolkit has bigger CPU impact, and QVFR has bigger GPU impact so you should choose the one more appropriate to where you have the headroom.

Edited October 24, 2023 by j9murphy

[av8orDave]

1 hour ago, dsc106 said:

Also: i see quad views also works with reverb G2 in fixed foveating rendering mode. Is it worth using? Will it perform better even in fixed mode VS the FFR baked into the openXR toolkit?

I am now using quad view with a Reverb G2. I've also used the OpenXR Toolkit FFR in the past. In my opinion, there's no comparison. Quad View is the winner. It provides a significant bump and you can hardly tell the difference in quality.

[dsc106]

That is great news, I will give Quadviews a go with my G2 soon. If I install this, will I still be able to use the standard FFR in other OpenXR titles which do not support quadviews, such as MSFS 2020 / simracing? Or will it essentially disable the ability to do that elsewhere?

Regarding a performance comparison between the G2 & Pimax Crystal... to compare apples to apples, if I am running quadviews on G2 & Crystal, I understand the Crystal will still be a bit more advantageous due to eye-tracking. But in a demanding situation such as an AH-64D in Marianas with high graphics settings where I currently get perhaps 50fps (running 45 repo). Let's say I install quadviews on G2 and can boost that to 55-60fps. Great! But what should I expect on a Crystal in that situation? I am concerned I will have to turn down my graphics settings in order to keep 45fps reprojection.

Ideally, if I get the Crystal, I would hope to be able to hold 60fps reprojection on 120hz using Quadviews, high details, and DLSS quality. My rig is a 5950x & RTX 4090. In Q1 2025 I plan to upgrade to a 15900k & RTX 5090 assuming they are out around then. I wonder if I should just wait to upgrade my headset until my hardware can scale up a bit.

[Hotdognz]

Just got 2.9 installed, what has everyone settled on with the new settings in 2.9 for the Pimax Crystal.

Cheers

 

[TAIPAN_]

18 hours ago, dsc106 said:

I could use more detail… I don’t even get 80-90 on my G2 except in causcaus or high level flight. So I don’t see how that would be possible.

open Mariana’s free flight in Huey. Take off, fly just past the carrier on water at about 300-400ft, then turn counter clockwise back around. I will get around 50-52fps there with shadows flat, everything else mostly high, DLSS quality.

I fly low level rotor in the most taxing game situations. Even with quarries it seems the crystal should be twice as demanding?

It's because outside the 30% of the screen that your eye is looking, quadviews can drop down to 10% of the resolution. That's soo much less pixels to render. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by TAIPAN_

[TAIPAN_]

11 hours ago, dsc106 said:

That is great news, I will give Quadviews a go with my G2 soon. If I install this, will I still be able to use the standard FFR in other OpenXR titles which do not support quadviews, such as MSFS 2020 / simracing? Or will it essentially disable the ability to do that elsewhere?

Ideally, if I get the Crystal, I would hope to be able to hold 60fps reprojection on 120hz using Quadviews, high details, and DLSS quality. My rig is a 5950x & RTX 4090. In Q1 2025 I plan to upgrade to a 15900k & RTX 5090 assuming they are out around then. I wonder if I should just wait to upgrade my headset until my hardware can scale up a bit.

You can still use other Foveated Rendering in other titles, QuadViews won't interfere with that. 

Regarding reprojection - if you like reprojection you might want to avoid Pimax. Most people say it doesn't work well with reprojection and it's hard to get it working well. I've tried "compulsive smoothing" at 60fps on 120hz and it's OK but it's just copying the image twice over two frames. I prefer turning down settings and running at 90hz full refresh. 

Instead of reprojection I'd consider going 72hz that should release in a firmware update sometime soon. 

With that 4090 your system is quite strong and should achieve 72hz with the right settings IF running QuadViews. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by TAIPAN_

[Peedee]

10 hours ago, dsc106 said:

That is great news, I will give Quadviews a go with my G2 soon. If I install this, will I still be able to use the standard FFR in other OpenXR titles which do not support quadviews, such as MSFS 2020 / simracing? Or will it essentially disable the ability to do that elsewhere?

Regarding a performance comparison between the G2 & Pimax Crystal... to compare apples to apples, if I am running quadviews on G2 & Crystal, I understand the Crystal will still be a bit more advantageous due to eye-tracking. But in a demanding situation such as an AH-64D in Marianas with high graphics settings where I currently get perhaps 50fps (running 45 repo). Let's say I install quadviews on G2 and can boost that to 55-60fps. Great! But what should I expect on a Crystal in that situation? I am concerned I will have to turn down my graphics settings in order to keep 45fps reprojection.

Ideally, if I get the Crystal, I would hope to be able to hold 60fps reprojection on 120hz using Quadviews, high details, and DLSS quality. My rig is a 5950x & RTX 4090. In Q1 2025 I plan to upgrade to a 15900k & RTX 5090 assuming they are out around then. I wonder if I should just wait to upgrade my headset until my hardware can scale up a bit.

Pimax a bit more advantageous than G2 because of eye tracking you say… well the advantage will be that you won’t notice the lower resolution outside of where you are looking because the higher resolution area follows your eyes. 

Also, the motion reprojection on the Crystal doesn’t work that well so I don’t use it. I got my native 90 fps anyway so I don’t need it. Maybe my DCS graphics settings aren’t as high as yours, not sure. But the the incredible clarity and fluid motion I have now - i don’t want to lose that. It looks incredible. I have not tested with AH-64D though. Crystal will soon get a 72hz update too. I used that on my Pico in DCS to be able to crank up graphics and resolution and it worked so well there that I never went back to 90. My brain got used to 72 very fast. That surprised me.

Don’t use dlss with Crystal. Why bother buying Crystal if you are to use that setting? It blurs the picture too much. Maybe that’s less obvious on a lower resolution headset, but on the Crystal it’s so easy to see. 

No problem having Quad views installed and play other games that don’t support it. To disable it is just to uncheck a box in PimaxXR settings. Not sure if that is even needed but you can to make sure. And “normal” Foveated rendering should work for those titles. 

[dsc106]

Got it, thanks for all the great information. And good to know about motion reprojection.

So essentially, with quad views - even if I am using it already on a G2 - I should expect that moving to a Pimax Crystal will essential be a “free” or “almost free” move regarding performance drop? Since most of the extra pixels aren’t really being rendered at all?

(But a much higher performance impact if I was not using my quad views and have to rely on standard fixed foveated rendering, such as in SimRacing or MSFS)?

[j9murphy]

I went from a G2 to a crystal.  My experience with the G2 was very good, using motion smoothing, msaax2, and 90hz I was able to get exceptional smoothness.  I wanted, however, more FOV and a clearer picture.

I have not (yet) been able to attain the level of smoothness with my crystal that I got with my G2, although the picture is MUCH better.  Motion smoothing with the crystal is "broken" from what I understand in the current version.  There is a fix coming and maybe that will give the smoothness I want, and when 72hz mode is available, maybe that will help too.  I couldn't do 60hz on the G2, made my eyes tired pretty quickly.

I dont use any AA (no msaa, dlss, dlaa..) because I find that the resolution of the lenses overcomes most of the need for AA (ymmv, its a personal thing of course). I do use QVFR and sampling in the OXRTK, but those are a work in progress as I continue to experiment.  My only gripe at this point is smoothness, but I think the next pimax update will solve that for me.

(13900k/4090/32GB/GPU Bound)

Edited October 25, 2023 by j9murphy

[Peedee]

1 hour ago, j9murphy said:

I went from a G2 to a crystal.  My experience with the G2 was very good, using motion smoothing, msaax2, and 90hz I was able to get exceptional smoothness.  I wanted, however, more FOV and a clearer picture.

I have not (yet) been able to attain the level of smoothness with my crystal that I got with my G2, although the picture is MUCH better.  Motion smoothing with the crystal is "broken" from what I understand in the current version.  There is a fix coming and maybe that will give the smoothness I want, and when 72hz mode is available, maybe that will help too.  I couldn't do 60hz on the G2, made my eyes tired pretty quickly.

I dont use any AA (no msaa, dlss, dlaa..) because I find that the resolution of the lenses overcomes most of the need for AA (ymmv, its a personal thing of course). I do use QVFR and sampling in the OXRTK, but those are a work in progress as I continue to experiment.  My only gripe at this point is smoothness, but I think the next pimax update will solve that for me.

(13900k/4090/32GB/GPU Bound)

 

Not smooth — what resolution are you running ?

Edited October 25, 2023 by Peedee

[j9murphy]

37 minutes ago, Peedee said:

Not smooth — what resolution are you running ?

 

max in PimaxPlay

[Peedee]

10 hours ago, j9murphy said:

max in PimaxPlay

Ok, that’s simply too many pixels to push and expect smooth frame rates. I have max in Pimax play too, but I have lowered it to 3800x4497 in OpenXR toolkit. It is still incredibly clear and sharp. If you are familiar with OpenXR toolkit companion app you will find “Override resolution” function in the menu tab almost all the way to right, and try lower it there to something more reasonable. 3800x4497 worked for me. That resolution will also be the “starting point” that Quadview use for its calculations. I have also all settings for Quadview in default values.
 

Since you do this resolution change while in DCS VR, you have to restart the game to see effect. Try it, and be surprised that you really haven’t lost all that much from Max’s silly high resolution  

Edited October 26, 2023 by Peedee

[j9murphy]

I'm not in front of my computer at the moment but I think I've already lowered the resolution in oxrtk to 3500...

[Peedee]

1 hour ago, j9murphy said:

I'm not in front of my computer at the moment but I think I've already lowered the resolution in oxrtk to 3500...

Hmmm…. Ok, I’m not sure then what is going on  

[Peedee]

1 hour ago, j9murphy said:

I'm not in front of my computer at the moment but I think I've already lowered the resolution in oxrtk to 3500...

Btw…. Try turning off HAGS in Windows if you haven’t already done so