Air to Air Missile doubts (Chart)

[edudix]

Hi everybody, 

I have a question related to de A/A missiles in the F18C. Is there any chart where to find ranges, speed, knots... I don´t know, like a guide to follow. Or in general with the weapons also the A/G ones.

I´ve been doing some tests with the AMRAAM AIM 120C and B and I can´t see the differences between both at close range (less than 10nm) Also Ive tried both at medium range without too much success.

Also have no much idea between the different sparrow models. H; MH; and P.

Perhaps a chart can clarify it.

BR

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by edudix

[Topper81]

I guess there aren't any realistic charts you can find like that because this stuff is classified.

However, as far as I know:

- AIM 120C: Most modern, simulated Amram in DCS. Has a bit less range then the B but it has higher manoeuvrability

- Sparrow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-7_Sparrow, see AIM-7 variants

However, I don't know if these differences are really simulated in DCS.

It's mostly a good Idea to fly high (>= 30.000 ft) and fast (> M1.0) when firing these weapons, which will increase it's range significantly, but for Tomcat it might be better to fly a bit lower than the target because it's radar can't handle radar ground reflections so good. (Not sure about that)

Note that for the Sparrow, you need a lock until it passes or it hits the target, because of it's semi active radar which cannot emit itself.

For the AIM-120, you need a lock until it goes pit bull (You see a counter for this in the HUD), at that point it's active radar should be able to lock the target itself.

Maybe this helps a bit...

You can also check this YouTube videos:

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Topper81

[edudix]

11 minutes ago, Topper81 said:

I guess there don't are any realistic charts you can find like that because this stuff is classified.

However, as far as I know:

- AIM 120C: Most modern, simulated Amram in DCS. Has a bit less range then the B but it has higher manoeuvrability

- Sparrow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-7_Sparrow, see AIM-7 variants

However, I don't know if these differences are really simulated in DCS.

It's mostly a good Idea to fly high (>= 30.000 ft) and fast (> M1.0) when firing these weapons, which will increase it's range significantly, but for Tomcat it might be better to fly a bit lower than the target because it's radar can't handle radar ground reflections so good. (Not sure about that)

Note that for the Sparrow, you need a lock until it passes or it hits the target, because of it's semi active radar which cannot emit itself.

For the AIM-120, you need a lock until it goes pit bull (You see a counter for this in the HUD), at that point it's active radar should be able to lock the target itself.

Maybe this helps a bit...

You can also check this YouTube videos:

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Topper I´ve seen the Reapers F18 one not the F16. I´ll check it. 
I was wondering if there is a DCS chart not a military one of someone who has already tested it.... 
In my tests between 10 and 5 nm the AMRAAM are quite effective, between 20 to 10 not. So Im still thinking about the medium range of this missile.... 

[Dr_Pavelheer]

Ranges and stuff vary wildly depending on both the shooter and the target, if you're both on the deck then missile will loose its energy extremely quickly, especially if forced to maneuver.

On the other hand if you're at 40k feet doing Mach 2 and your target is a transport aircraft flying towards you battery life of the missile will probably become the limiting factor, not its kinematic performance

[Topper81]

16 minutes ago, edudix said:

Thanks Topper I´ve seen the Reapers F18 one not the F16. I´ll check it. 
I was wondering if there is a DCS chart not a military one of someone who has already tested it.... 
In my tests between 10 and 5 nm the AMRAAM are quite effective, between 20 to 10 not. So Im still thinking about the medium range of this missile.... 

I think the problem is: What should a chart of this show you? Because it's depending on so many factors:

- Your alt and speed
- Target alt, speed, maneuvering, radar cross section,
- Weather: Air pressure, wind, ...

So all you can get from my point of view, is a propability, but depending on so many factors, that I don't know how to bring it into a chart...
The question what the best tactic is, is always depending on the situation.

For that reason, in a one : one scenario, it might be a good idea to fire 2 120s: First one so that the target has to start maneuvering and it loses energy, and prossibly it has to break the lock of it's fired missiles, and another close to the "no escape zone". In this tactic, keep the target close to the border of the radars scan zone after firering the first missile, and keep it locked until the second missile goes pit bull. I don't know if it's a good real tactic, but it works good against some AI aircrafts if they only have semi active missiles.

But 20 miles seems to be an effective range to me, if you and your target are fast and high and you are closing in. Even more is possible.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Topper81

[edudix]

2 hours ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

Ranges and stuff vary wildly depending on both the shooter and the target, if you're both on the deck then missile will loose its energy extremely quickly, especially if forced to maneuver.

On the other hand if you're at 40k feet doing Mach 2 and your target is a transport aircraft flying towards you battery life of the missile will probably become the limiting factor, not its kinematic performance

thanks. Yes the battery life is other matter to bear in mind.

1 hour ago, Topper81 said:

I think the problem is: What should a chart of this show you? Because it's depending on so many factors:

- Your alt and speed
- Target alt, speed, maneuvering, radar cross section,
- Weather: Air pressure, wind, ...

So all you can get from my point of view, is a propability, but depending on so many factors, that I don't know how to bring it into a chart...
The question what the best tactic is, is always depending on the situation.

For that reason, in a one : one scenario, it might be a good idea to fire 2 120s: First one so that the target has to start maneuvering and it loses energy, and prossibly it has to break the lock of it's fired missiles, and another close to the "no escape zone". In this tactic, keep the target close to the border of the radars scan zone after firering the first missile, and keep it locked until the second missile goes pit bull. I don't know if it's a good real tactic, but it works good against some AI aircrafts if they only have semi active missiles.

But 20 miles seems to be an effective range to me, if you and your target are fast and high and you are closing in. Even more is possible.

 

Many thanks to share your thoughts!! I´ll do some tests and share it.

[HILOK]

12 hours ago, edudix said:

I have a question related to de A/A missiles in the F18C. Is there any chart where to find ranges, speed, knots... I don´t know, like a guide to follow.

maybe that helps