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Previous bug "sidewinders growl with no power on station" may not be a bug


nairb121

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The thread above was concerning a reported bug where the sidewinder growl would continue with the missiles not selected. It was later determined that the left missile was the source of the problem. However based on this section (Figure 1-28) in the -34 (https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1946809/) it appears that it's correct for the left AIM-9 to growl regardless of selection, as long as the Guns, Missile, and Camera switch is set to GUNS MSL & CAMR and there is a missile on the station.

However, the the volume knob should still control the volume of the audio tone.

image.png

This will also be the case when the External Stores selector is out of the SAFE detent - the missile cannot be fired but the left AIM-9 will still produce an audio tone. Selecting DM or DG mode should allow the missiles to be fired and (I assume) the right missile to be heard, regardless of the External Stores selector position.

image.png

It's not clear why the left launcher behaves differently. The only difference appears to be the left launcher's provisions for the TDU-11/B target rocket - maybe something about this implementation causes the unexpected behavior.

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@dolfo Replying to this here to keep this discussion under the correct topic.

I don't agree with your interpretation of the "Adjusts volume of audio tone... from left missile (selection not required)" passage. That the missile doesn't need to be selected, for the volume knob's position to be effective when it does get selected, is intuitively obvious, and would not need to be communicated to the aircrew. Furthermore, this interpretation is contradicted by the following "or from right missile, if selected." It doesn't make sense that the volume knob works on an unselected left missile but only on a selected right missile - unless the statement refers to the audible tone from an unselected left missile or a selected right one.

I don't believe the NATOPS passage "The audio tone of either missile is activated or shut off by the corresponding wingtip armament position selector switch without arming the missile." contradicts this. It indicates that the missiles need not be armed for selection to produce tone; this is simply a missing feature and should be added.

The passage from the -34, "To obtain the right missile audio tone, place left wingtip armament positions selector switch OFF and right wingtip armament position selector switch at up position", I believe indicates that the right missile tone and firing priority will override the left one if right is selected and left isn't.

Finally, the -34 as shown above notes that the left missile audio tone is not affected by the External Stores Selector being moved out of SAFE - this inhibits firing but tone will still be present. I believe this is the same logic that provides the left audio tone when the left missile is deselected and the Guns, Missile and Camera switch is set to GUNS, MSL & CAMR.

So to amend my proposed missile logic (on the other thread) based on the added information:

 

  • Guns, Missile and Camera Switch set to OFF or CAMR ONLY:
    • Left missile growls if selected but cannot be fired.
    • Right missile growls if selected, and left missile is unselected, but cannot be fired.
  • Guns, Missile and Camera Switch set to GUNS MSL & CAMR: 
    • SELECT JETTISON Switch set to OFF:
      • EXTERNAL STORES Selector set to SAFE:
        • Left AIM-9 growls if present, if selected or both missiles are unselected, but can only be fired if selected.
        • Right AIM-9 will only growl, and can only be fired, if selected and left missile is unselected or missing.
      • EXTERNAL STORES Selector set to BOMB, RIPL, or RKT/DISP:
        • Left AIM-9 growls if present and selected, or both missiles are unselected, but cannot be fired unless DM/DG mode is activated and the station is selected.
        • Right AIM-9 will only growl, and can only be fired, if DM/DG mode is activated and the station is selected, and the left missile is unselected or missing.
    • SELECT JETTISON Switch set to SELECT POSITION or ALL PYLONS:
      • EXTERNAL STORES Selector set to SAFE, BOMB, RIPL, or RKT/DISP:
        • Left AIM-9 growls if present and selected, or both missiles are unselected, but cannot be fired under any circumstances.
        • Right AIM-9 will only growl if the station is selected, and the left missile is unselected or missing, but cannot be fired under any circumstances.
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14 hours ago, nairb121 said:

@dolfo Replying to this here to keep this discussion under the correct topic.

 "audio tone of either missile is ... shut off by the corresponding wingtip armament position selector"

 

Is as clear as it gets. True that the Guns Camera and Missiles switch does not need to be on, that would be a different request (as in "demonstrate the switch must be armed for the tone to be heard")

Back to the audio tone: "The audio tone is... shut off by the corresponding ..." end of argument, no further required.

 

Or, draw a wiring diagram that will produce the desired results:

Lef ON, Right ON - Left heard

Left ON, Right OFF - Left heard

Left OFF, Right ON - Right heard

Left OFF, Right OFF - ?

if the answer is nothing heard, simple enough. If you want the answer to be Left heard, how does this work?

 

Again,  "The audio tone is... shut off by the corresponding ..."

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Why the difference between left and right in "left missile (selection not required) or from right missile, if selected"? And "the left audio tone is not affected"? The way these are worded to specifically call out the left missile strongly indicates (in my opinion) that its behavior is different enough (more than just being priority) that it deserved additional attention.

Could this be a variant difference between the F-5E/N and the F-5E-1/E-3? It seems like a stretch, there are only minor differences in the armament panel between the E and the E-1/E-3, and the E-1/E-3 have the same panel (and presumably same logic) as the N.

It's frustrating how the NATOPS is missing these specifics on the left missile audio, while the -34 is missing the specifics on the wingtip selector switches - it makes it hard to piece together how it actually works. And, while we can assume that the same logic as the N and E-1 apply, neither of these actually contain data for the E-3.

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