What can I improve in my flying?

[Tweety777]

Hello everyone,

 

Hopefully I found the correct place for this question, considering I only fly the F14, I couldn't find any better place for this kind of question.

Recently I have been trying to improve my flying and getting to grips better with the F14B, but somehow I keep struggling to find any improvement. Therefore I decided to record a mission that is in the downloadable content section of the ED site. This provides ACM and BFM trying missions vs several different planes. In the video below I fly the ACM mission against 2 F16's in Ace level. Can you guys tell me what I can improve?

Just for clearity, I have managed to win several of these rounds basically on my own since the AI F14 is more of a flying target then any help in bringing the enemy planes down.

 

Thanks for any help you can give me.

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Tweety777
Typo corrected

[Elliot]

• The tip I would give is to be conservative with your fox 2's. If the enemy is flaring (especially frontal aspect) do NOT fire. Gun them at the merge instead, if you want a quick kill.
• If you want to fire a sidewinder at a very close range, use SEAM and pull as much lead as possible - either to the intercept course of the bandit (the upside down T on the VDI) or to the gimbal limits of the seeker. The 9L/9M is no 9X.
• Finally, I would recommend putting maneuver slats/flaps down, it creates a little bit of drag but the lift you gain from it is nice, it allows for the same AOA but a tighter turn radius. You could also use landing flaps below 200 knots, but this was never used during IRL combat due to the risk of jamming them and the fact a sidewinder shot could have blown a chunk of it out. 

also, a huge note. If you want to learn energy management, try dogfighting in the A. The lack of thrust will make you think more of your moves. You can then carry this over to the B, which will make you all the better dogfighter. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Elliot
additions + spelling error

[captain_dalan]

I have no idea what AFM stands for, but my 3 main observations here are:
1. You tend to enter the merge at a too low energy state, which combined with your hard pulls (but good control of the high AoA state) leaves you at 200 knots, but with no clear shot at the bandits way too often;
2. Like Elliot above, i agree that you spam IR missiles way too much. I would put a limited number of missiles on my plain and don't use infinite ammo. This will tach you to make each shot matter. Fire with good parameters. If it's from the front, make sure the missile has a good tone, and if it's from the back, that you have good angles and enough airspeed to boost missile performance
3. Turn of labels. It's gonna make things VERY hard at the start. But it is also going to make you fly more cautiously. Few points of cautious flying, don't get stuck in a low energy state, unless maybe you end up with both bandits on your 12, and even then, make sure they aren't in a firing position. Also, always have an exit plan.

[Tweety777]

Thanks for the tips guys.

• I'll be applying more throttle into the merge, what speed would you suggest?
• This is a standard mission, I don't like to modify it, partly because of all the menu options etc., though I can off course restrain myself from firing as often as I do now in this mission.
• I'll try and maintain my energy state better, perhaps I'll try the A for a whileas suggested.
• Turning off labels sounds like a plan, though I'll start at beginner level AI at first then to train myself better.

 

 

 

[GGTharos]

21 hours ago, Tweety777 said:

Recently I have been trying to improve my flying and getting to grips better with the F14B, but somehow I keep struggling to find any improvement. Therefore I decided to record a mission that is in the downloadable content section of the ED site. This provides AFM and BFM trying missions vs several different planes. In the video below I fly the AFM mission against 2 F16's in Ace level. Can you guys tell me what I can improve?

 

Sure.   Here's a bunch of vague answers.

Ground school:  You need to read up on and understand the basics of geometry for BFM against a single aircraft and get that right first. When you practice, you should have a fairly detailed plan for your designated learning objectives and you should analyze how you did with respect to those.  Eg. practice your turn-circle entry against an opponent starting from his 6.  The goal isn't to gun them, it's to saddle up in the control zone and stay there (As you can imagine, the opposite is the goal when you're defensive - to neutralize the fight)

Before flying combat, learn how to fly the aircraft.  Learn to recognize behavior by listening to the rumble, the engines, and seeing the aircraft shake.  Those correspond to the AoA you're at and help you understand how you're changing your speed and other bits of information without having to look down.  Devise exercises to help you learn all this - you can probably google handling characterstics instruction manuals for aircraft.  The only additional thing I'd mention is that you learn to turn your aircraft deliberately - ie. steady vs bleeding (doesn't have to be instantaneous, just like your throttle isn't just idle or MAX) or accelerating turns at various altitudes and so on.    The first part of this (learning AoA cues) helps you with the next part, ie. recognizing what you're doing to your speed without looking at the instruments.

Ground-school your weapons.  Understand how and why they work, what parameters they should be launched in (ie. the WEZ) and same for your opponents.  Put them in yoru WEZ, be out of theirs - but to accomplish this you need to have knowledge.

Ground-school and then practice range and aspect recognition of your target without radars or other sensors etc.   This is critical in BFM.

Don't practice against multiple aircraft.   The educational worth is zero, it teaches you nothing since you lack the above basics.  A half-trained human 2-ship would end you within 30 seconds of the merge unless you were blowing through, and that's with skill levels being more or less at equal levels of competency - we're not talking BFM gods or anything.

The information you need can be googled - there are basic IRL air force/navy BFM manuals out there and there's a bunch of information about the weapons you use inside and outside of the game.  This stuff is dry and is best practiced with an instructor, but with dedication you can do this on your own.

I don't promise you'll get better - BFM is not easy and some people never get it, but these things above should help.

21 hours ago, Tweety777 said:

Just for clearity, I have managed to win several of these rounds basically on my own since the AI F14 is more of a flying target then any help in bringing the enemy planes down.

It doesn't mean anything in terms of skill other than you can beat up on a bunch of AI

[Elliot]

1 hour ago, Tweety777 said:

 

• I'll be applying more throttle into the merge, what speed would you suggest? 

 

 

 

Depends on the plan -

• two circle: rate speeds (300-350kts IAS), 
• one circle - 300-400kts IAS
• vertical - 400kts+ IAS

note - I mostly fly the A so these speeds may vary for the B

 

I usually fly the instant action gunzo against the su-27

Edited August 27, 2023 by Elliot

[Tweety777]

Thanks for all the good advice people, I greatly appreciate it.

 

Starting fight with a plan sounds like a good idea, I'll try that. I'll also start reading into things more.

I tried getting into the actual manouvers but couldn't seem to understand them, though when I started flying again just after reading your replies things started to get much clearer and it seems that I'm doing some of the manouvers already though I didn't know it. Might not be perfect but at least it seems to be a start.

 

A few months ago I started with the BFM missions but even after dominating the entire fight and being 100% hot on the tail of the F5 I still couldn't land a single shot on target. After reading a post about AI being extremely aggressive and above natural and therefore near impossible to get a gun kill on I jumped to ACM (the 2v2 fights). This week I tried the BFM again, but now I manage to get gun kills on the F5 (see the first video below) and upped my game today to Trained level (3 manouver kills and then the 1 in the video) and then I tried against a Rookie level F15 and won that as well after needing to work hard for it (see the second video). I tried using the flaps as well, the effect is huge, until you need speed and forget to retract them far enough. I need to learn how to get the flaps in manouver with my lever (I use the throttle lever on my VKB Gunfighter stick) to get better results.

 

 

[GGTharos]

54 minutes ago, Tweety777 said:

Starting fight with a plan sounds like a good idea, I'll try that. I'll also start reading into things more.

The plan wins BFM, period.   You have to have a completely inferior machine to lose if your planning (and execution) is superior or you could be very unlucky.

54 minutes ago, Tweety777 said:

I tried getting into the actual manouvers but couldn't seem to understand them, though when I started flying again just after reading your replies things started to get much clearer and it seems that I'm doing some of the manouvers already though I didn't know it. Might not be perfect but at least it seems to be a start.

I don't know how much this will help you, but here goes:

All maneuvering is done in relation to the bandit - meaning, you need to know his distance, speed, aspect, altitude.   The maneuvers descriptions usually don't help because they usually don't describe things in this context, and in the vast majority of cases this context is everything that matters.  So having said that we now have:

Outside of the turn circle (you and your opponent are further than a turn circle away - not misaligned turn circles, but outside) all geometry is intercept geometry where you seek to enter the other guy's turn circle with advantage - this could be completely severe such as a stern conversion (you drop on his six right away) or getting a significant lead turn.

Once inside the turn circle, you seek to enter his control zone and stay there (of course he will be doing the same).  You need to be able to judge relative speed (is he slower or faster than me?), aspect and distance from you by sight.   You then maneuver to position the bandit in a specific place in relation to your visual cues within your cockpit, ie. your lift vector (Straight up) offset from your canopy rail or HUD or other elements, depending on  which part of the fight you're in.

You're always trying to manipulate aspect speed and distance to your advantage, so basically you're really manipulating the turn circle and you need to understand how to recognize what he is doing to it as well.  Energy fighting adds another dimension to this (I think a typical way to think of energy fighting is zooming vertically, but that's just not it) but it is much harder, so stick with horizontal/out of plane maneuvering that isn't too severe.

Read the resources that are out there, they will usually give you good guidance.

[captain_dalan]

4 hours ago, Elliot said:

Depends on the plan -

• two circle: rate speeds (300-350kts IAS), 
• one circle - 300-400kts IAS
• vertical - 400kts+ IAS

note - I mostly fly the A so these speeds may vary for the B

 

I usually fly the instant action gunzo against the su-27

 

@Tweety777
To follow up on this:
- just because your plane rates best at 330-360 KIAS, doesn't mean you need to restrict yourself to that speed. What i often i like to do is start faster, say 420-450, then bleed down to 350 and stick it there if i want to remain inside the best rate speed (not always the case);
- then there are energy transitions and exchanges, which involve both bleeding and building up energy, and unlike the previous case, the A and the B are largely different here. That is, while they both rate best around 360 (in general), the A doesn't regain energy that well between 360-400. It's even worse from 280 to 330.  At least not nearly as good as the B, which doesn't really have "holes" in the EM diagram. So sometimes in the A, when i'm not sure i want to commit to a turn all the way in, be it one or two circle, i like to say start at 450, bleed down to 380-390 and then reevaluate. If i don't commit, i can now relax on the stick slightly and i can fairly easy get back to 420-430 and start all over again, or use these knots to extend and reposition, or in the extreme bug out.  Now remember the B, the B isn't all that good at regaining energy as well bellow 300, but it's much better above 350. This means you can push the bandit for more and for longer before you need to relax if something makes you change your mind.

As for the rest, i mostly agree with what @GGTharos said, except for one thing. Practicing against multiple opponents, even if only AI, still has some merits. Not so much as teaching you how to shoot them, but more to how to practice maintaining situational awareness in such environments and how to always have some energy to spare, if someone jumps you. Admittedly, the AI isn't that useful for the latter, but still, sometimes it can surprise in a positive way. 

EDIT:
Stay away from manual flaps control as long as possible. The CDAC is generally much better then you when deciding when to employ maneuver flaps. As for the the landing flaps and the flap handle, while valid tactic at the extremes, try not to develop the habit of using it constantly, as it'll become a crutch and you'll never really learn how to fight in the plane. On top of it, you will make the plane useless in most tactical scenarios and will only now hot to fly it in 1 v 1 tournaments. However, if you manage to employ landing flaps and NOT consistently NOT break them every time you are up, then you sir, have my salute and a hat off. In case you haven't came upon the data thus far, the landing flaps can break at random pretty much every time you get above 220 knots and then they get stuck there, sometimes just one side, sometimes both. I don't know if HB models it, but they should also jam if you over-g them, not just over-speed them.

EDIT 2:
I just remembered this one. I recorded this a while ago. It's the Nevada instant action, a guns fight against an AI F-16C. I think it's set to veteran. I illustrates some of the points i left as comment to your F-15 video:
 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by captain_dalan

[Tweety777]

12 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

@Tweety777
To follow up on this:
- just because your plane rates best at 330-360 KIAS, doesn't mean you need to restrict yourself to that speed. What i often i like to do is start faster, say 420-450, then bleed down to 350 and stick it there if i want to remain inside the best rate speed (not always the case);
- then there are energy transitions and exchanges, which involve both bleeding and building up energy, ...

As for the rest, i mostly agree with what @GGTharos said, except for one thing...

EDIT:
Stay away from manual flaps control as long as possible. The CDAC is generally much better then you when deciding when to employ maneuver flaps...

EDIT 2:
I just remembered this one. I recorded this a while ago. It's the Nevada instant action, a guns fight against an AI F-16C. I think it's set to veteran. I illustrates some of the points i left as comment to your F-15 video:

• About the speed, this helps a great deal, thanks a lot. I'll try to keep that in mind. It feels like it explains what I already experiences in the behaviour of the Tomcat but now I have some hard figures to help me understand things better.
• For the training against 2 AI, I think it indeed helps with some situational awareness though I think working on my BFM is the first priority now, alongside learning to fly better off course. For this I try the Speed and Angels campaign from time to time.
• The flaps I'll leave for what they are then, I indeed did break them too often.
• Thanks for the video, it did help.

 

12 hours ago, GGTharos said:

The plan wins BFM, period. You have to have a completely inferior machine to lose if your planning (and execution) is superior or you could be very unlucky.

That sounds reasonable, though I wander how to plan in such a way that it survives first contact with the bandit? Is it more like I'll chosing between going one or two circle or vertical and then stick with it? Or do you mean that you need to plan what move will be your next move and when you start that move? At this point having a plan wins sounds quite conflicting with manouvering in relation to the bandit. 

 

Also, you mention geometry. As an engineer by profession I'm thinking in triangels, squares and other shapes, so I don't think I understand the meaning of geometry in this context, can you clarify?

[BMO]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb Tweety777:

Also, you mention geometry. As an engineer by profession I'm thinking in triangels, squares and other shapes, so I don't think I understand the meaning of geometry in this context, can you clarify?

In BFM it´s about circles - mostly their radius and the speed ur drawing them. I´m not an expert but the things you can google are the 3 types of pursuit (pure, lead, lag), 1-circle, 2-circle

You have to decide when to use which - as long as ur in pure pursuit the position stays neutral, you have to go to lead pursuit to get a shot off. also by bleeding speed u make ur radius smaller, in a vertical scissor the top plane is usually the attacking one

I am not an expert and also I´m coming from war thunder, but the principles of geometry apply here too. Here is a video series of a spanish guy that explains that very good imo:

 

 

 

[GGTharos]

5 hours ago, Tweety777 said:

That sounds reasonable, though I wander how to plan in such a way that it survives first contact with the bandit? Is it more like I'll chosing between going one or two circle or vertical and then stick with it? Or do you mean that you need to plan what move will be your next move and when you start that move? At this point having a plan wins sounds quite conflicting with manouvering in relation to the bandit. 

Initially start with what you said - determine the choice of one or two circle based on the merge parameters, then fly your best one/two circle.

You're right, the plan 'does not survive' if the other aircraft decides to change things - then you also change things based on what that other aircraft is doing.  All of this is fluid and dynamic.  So I guess you might say you need lots of plans and you have to change which one you're using depending on how the situation develops.

The thing about having those already thought out and practiced is that you'll be able to know what to do and how to do it at the drop of a hat, and if you're faster at recognition/execution than the other guy, you can put him in a place where he can no longer counter you.  Sure, he can go in whatever direction but the end result will always be you in the control zone.

 

5 hours ago, Tweety777 said:

Also, you mention geometry. As an engineer by profession I'm thinking in triangels, squares and other shapes, so I don't think I understand the meaning of geometry in this context, can you clarify?

Outside the turn circle you're flying a collision course, with the goal to enter the bandit's turn circle.  You can adjust the details of this geometry base don what exactly you want to achieve - simplest thing, collision with your target ie. get there as soon as you can.  As you can imagine this is basically a triangle sort of problem (the case where he's always head on is trivial).

From there you can decide to have offset so you can turn directly onto his 6 without overshooting it (try intercepting a tanker) and whatever other scenario you can imagine.

Inside the turn circle it's nearly the same but you're manipulating where in the circle you are and where you're going to do by manipulating speed, distance and aspect from the target.  You do this by using lead/pure/lag pursuit with your nose OR lift vector, and of course throttle and g.

Edited August 28, 2023 by GGTharos

[Tweety777]

Thanks for the clarification, this makes a hole lot more sense to me now. This helps a lot in where to aim in improving myself.

 

While practicing this afternoon with all labels of I ran into a problem, my monitor (a 4K 43" TV running at 1440P in DCS) has broken backlighting (a lot of large white dots visible at certain colours) where I can not see my enemy when he is inside 1 of the dots. For now I'll keep practicing with labels turned somewhat on before getting myself a better monitor. I tried my old 24" monitor today but though I can see my enemy everywhere on that screen I only see him several miles closer to me with the monitor as close ahead of me as possible at the moment. Meanwhile I'll also try to keep improving my flying skills.

[Kageseigi]

On 8/28/2023 at 4:52 PM, Tweety777 said:

While practicing this afternoon with all labels of I ran into a problem, my monitor (a 4K 43" TV running at 1440P in DCS) has broken backlighting (a lot of large white dots visible at certain colours) where I can not see my enemy when he is inside 1 of the dots. For now I'll keep practicing with labels turned somewhat on before getting myself a better monitor. I tried my old 24" monitor today but though I can see my enemy everywhere on that screen I only see him several miles closer to me with the monitor as close ahead of me as possible at the moment.

Yeah, using "Dots" instead of full labels may be a good compromise. And maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read that planes are easier to spot in DCS if you play at 1080p resolution. I play on a 1080p tv, so I've never been able to compare.

[Tweety777]

For me it appears that the higher resolution makes it easier to see, the FHD 24" at like half a meter from my eyes is quite strenouos for my eyes and so far I've been able to planes sooner at the TV at more like a meter from my eyes. I must say that it still feels like an improvement having the 24" screen so close to me rather then the 43" with broken backlighting. I hope I can upgrade to a 27" 1440P in the near future, though in the end I want to have a 34" ultrawide 1440P but that is just dreaming at this point.

[captain_dalan]

On 8/30/2023 at 10:33 AM, Tweety777 said:

For me it appears that the higher resolution makes it easier to see, the FHD 24" at like half a meter from my eyes is quite strenouos for my eyes and so far I've been able to planes sooner at the TV at more like a meter from my eyes. I must say that it still feels like an improvement having the 24" screen so close to me rather then the 43" with broken backlighting. I hope I can upgrade to a 27" 1440P in the near future, though in the end I want to have a 34" ultrawide 1440P but that is just dreaming at this point.

That's odd indeed. Some time ago, i changed from a 21' 1080p screen to 27'' 1440p screen, and the visibility range for fighter sized targets ahs decreased from about 10 to about 3-4 nautical miles. Which for me at least is ok, as this should be roughly realistic. The visibility of course will depend on the current FoV of course. 

[Tweety777]

That sounds like quite a step back. 

For the FoV, what do you use? At first I tended to go for quite a wide field of view hoping for more situational awareness, though now I stick with the default FoV (72 degrees?) though that is still wider then our own eyes.

[captain_dalan]

On 9/3/2023 at 11:47 AM, Tweety777 said:

That sounds like quite a step back. 

For the FoV, what do you use? At first I tended to go for quite a wide field of view hoping for more situational awareness, though now I stick with the default FoV (72 degrees?) though that is still wider then our own eyes.

I use 94 for the Tomcat, as it happens to simulate the position of the canopy bows the best on my screen, from my sitting position. 
Don't buy into that whole your eyes see focused only 60 degree ahead. You don't see in your day to day life with horse-blinders over your eyes. Your peripheral vision is mostly responsible for movement detection, and that easily goes to 120 degrees, and at the extremes even over 180. Plus, if you restrict yourself to 60 degrees or less, you end up looking around like 1989 Tim Burton's Batman. With your neck instead of with your eyes, which is just.... biologically wrong.

In the end, find what works for you, and stick with it. I chose 94, as from where i am sitting, it makes the virtual cockpit feel most natural. Like a.... an extension of my room if you would. It feels most intuitive when i need to (still) turn my head to look for certain indicator or instrument. It still doesn't beat a good VR (especially the lack of depth perception and closure), but heck, i'm too poor be able to afford one. Not just the device, but the machine to run it. On top of it, the best current VRs are just starting to approach to visual quality of a good screen. So who knows, maybe by the time i retire...  

Edited September 9, 2023 by captain_dalan

[Tweety777]

Thanks for the great story and advice! I can work with that, I might stick with what I have right now. Also, the amount of screen estate you can actually see at once matters as well, especially when I used the old 43" TV, on which I couldn't see all in 1 look. Yesterday I upgraded to a 27" 1440P monitor so my monitor problems have now been resolved. It does make a great improvement now.

 

As to detecting motion, shadows and lights indicate a whole lot about surroundings you don't actually see at that moment. That is why you can see around blind corners when driving at night on unlid roads. Also, motion creates sound so maybe our ears help more then we realize. I know for a fact that a human being can respond to sounds at about 0DB. But that is an entirely different discussion.