Is it possible to win a dogfight using mig-21 against WWII fighters?

[PSC13]

I knew it is some how ridiculous, but I just has question about the involution of fighters after WWII. If every generation of fighters are an improvement from the former one. It should be superior over the former generations. However, I feel it is hard to win a dogfight with a Jet plane vs those WWII piston fighters. By using a mig-21 and gun, when I see the enemy(spitfire), there is almost no time for me to aim at, if I am fast. But if I slow down my speed, mig-21 became very cumbersome, it will be a perfect target for spitfire. 

Yes, I can engage or disengage at my will. But I can't win the dogfight with gun. I knew it is impractical in the real life, but how about mig-21 vs a UAV? A slow and very cheap, nimble aircraft. Does it mean missile is the only solution?

Actually, not just mig-21, with mig-15, I also feel it is hard to dogfight with a P-51 or something else. They don't have missile, what is the advantage over piston fighters? The answer is speed, but how to use the speed correctly?

[PSC13]

Or maybe jet are not designed to dogfight with piston fighters? They are designed to intercept bombers, with faster speed and heavy fire power? In order to defend bombers, enemy side also develop jet fighters, because without them, there is no way to fight with jet fighters.

[Rudel_chw]

12 minutes ago, PSC13 said:

It should be superior over the former generations.

it is … but your gun dogfight is like being a boxer with both arms tied up … in reality the mig-21 would engage the ww2 fighter from a distance, using its radar and missiles. The ww2 fighter uses guns because its all they have, for the -21 it should be able to use all it has too.

[PSC13]

2 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

it is … but your gun dogfight is like being a boxer with both arms tied up … in reality the mig-21 would engage the ww2 fighter from a distance, using its radar and missiles. The ww2 fighter uses guns because its all they have, for the -21 it should be able to use all it has too.

Thank you, yes, with radar and missiles, things became easy. In reality, mig-21 do have chances to engage with a piston "fighter", for example the A-1. Is missile a too expensive choice? Actually, there do have mig-17 been shot down by A-1. I guess Jet fighter should not try to dogfight with piston fighters with gun.

[Raisuli]

In an actual, 1v1, head to head guns-only battle?  Sure.  Will there be a winner?  Maybe.  Will it be you?  How good are you at deflection shots with those spud guns on the -21? 

Against all knowing, all seeing, dead-eye accurate AI?  Don't hold your breath.  Against Growling Sidewinder in an I-16?  Make sure your parachute harness is tight.

The problem with jet vs piston is the jet might be able to dominate the fight, but the piston aircraft will turn three times and do a loop before the jet can come back for another pass, and the jet will always overshoot.  Then it comes down to whether or not the piston fighter can get rounds on that retreating target, or whether the jet can get rounds on an aircraft with a 90 degree tail crossing angle. 

The bigger variable is SA.

There are a lot of UToob videos of this exact scenario for various values of jet vs piston.  The results are almost always the same.

I occasionally did the Final Countdown things with an F/A-18 vs Me-109 in the channel, and unless I've got missiles it's nearly always somewhere between stalemate or the AI hunts me down and shoots me as I land low on gas.  Long ago I disengaged at sea level and the AI got me while I was climbing at 350 knots at 28,000 feet (??!!), but that was back when the AI didn't bother with trivial nonsense like physics.  Might be different now.

[PSC13]

8 hours ago, Raisuli said:

In an actual, 1v1, head to head guns-only battle?  Sure.  Will there be a winner?  Maybe.  Will it be you?  How good are you at deflection shots with those spud guns on the -21? 

Against all knowing, all seeing, dead-eye accurate AI?  Don't hold your breath.  Against Growling Sidewinder in an I-16?  Make sure your parachute harness is tight.

The problem with jet vs piston is the jet might be able to dominate the fight, but the piston aircraft will turn three times and do a loop before the jet can come back for another pass, and the jet will always overshoot.  Then it comes down to whether or not the piston fighter can get rounds on that retreating target, or whether the jet can get rounds on an aircraft with a 90 degree tail crossing angle. 

The bigger variable is SA.

There are a lot of UToob videos of this exact scenario for various values of jet vs piston.  The results are almost always the same.

I occasionally did the Final Countdown things with an F/A-18 vs Me-109 in the channel, and unless I've got missiles it's nearly always somewhere between stalemate or the AI hunts me down and shoots me as I land low on gas.  Long ago I disengaged at sea level and the AI got me while I was climbing at 350 knots at 28,000 feet (??!!), but that was back when the AI didn't bother with trivial nonsense like physics.  Might be different now.

All knowing, all seeing AI, yes, this is what exactly I feel. For every angle I tried to approach it, even from lower 6 o'clock, the AI do maneuver to evade me, It always become head to head battle. And Mig-21 don't have a radar assisted gun sight(I guess, I don't know how to enable something like that), when enemy and I are maneuvering, it is very hard to guess the correct time to shoot.

Last night I tried to use F-14B to do such a battle. It is much easier. Maybe it is mostly due to radar assisted gun sight. The radar measure the distance between two aircraft continuously, and update the predict impact point on HUD. I can shoot accurately. And also, it is much harder to find enemy in Mig-21. I lost SA very soon.

[PSC13]

13 hours ago, Raisuli said:

In an actual, 1v1, head to head guns-only battle?  Sure.  Will there be a winner?  Maybe.  Will it be you?  How good are you at deflection shots with those spud guns on the -21? 

Against all knowing, all seeing, dead-eye accurate AI?  Don't hold your breath.  Against Growling Sidewinder in an I-16?  Make sure your parachute harness is tight.

The problem with jet vs piston is the jet might be able to dominate the fight, but the piston aircraft will turn three times and do a loop before the jet can come back for another pass, and the jet will always overshoot.  Then it comes down to whether or not the piston fighter can get rounds on that retreating target, or whether the jet can get rounds on an aircraft with a 90 degree tail crossing angle. 

The bigger variable is SA.

There are a lot of UToob videos of this exact scenario for various values of jet vs piston.  The results are almost always the same.

I occasionally did the Final Countdown things with an F/A-18 vs Me-109 in the channel, and unless I've got missiles it's nearly always somewhere between stalemate or the AI hunts me down and shoots me as I land low on gas.  Long ago I disengaged at sea level and the AI got me while I was climbing at 350 knots at 28,000 feet (??!!), but that was back when the AI didn't bother with trivial nonsense like physics.  Might be different now.

But I think F-18 vs 109 should be easy, I tried that before, because the radar can lock on 109, and help you decide when to fire. It may be hard to continuously chase 109 from behind, may be hard to keep visual contact, but there have many chances to attack, the bullets of F-18 are some kind of "spray", and very destructive, 109 can not endure much of them.