correct as is DTOS bug (steerpoints offset in HUD)

[nighteyes2017]

following the entire discussion along so far, it looks like most of the confusion is around the vis mode and the delta that designating introduces. undesignating puts the spi back on the FPM but does not reset the delta. 

Like the others, this at first, does did not make sense to me. Why would you move an important reference in the hud in vis mode, and not make it reset?

However, as Lord Vader has said, this seems to be real life implementation. So i have been asking myself: why would they design it like this in real life?

Then i remembered a handy feature from the harrier that looks a lot like this. Its been some time since i flew the harrier, but i seem to remember it also has a visual marker that is placed at the point where you threw your last bomb. So when you come around for another pass, and are looking for the target area, you have a reference of where that was. Remember, we are talking about visual mode here, wich probably means we are also talking about a target of oppertunity, and not a pre planned target with a steerpoint on top of it, but rather something that doesnt have a reference point at all.

So, following those circumstances, if we designate visually at a target location, wich is away from the steerpoint where we started, and we fire a weapon at it, we now have a marker were that was. And then when we come around, we have a reference point. tms down in that case, shouldn't reset the delta, because you would want to keep that reference until you are done launching  your next weapon.

This is the only reason i could come up with so far as to why the real life designers would implement it like this. It still may be a bug, but looking the logic from the perspective of a target of oppertunity, this makes some sense at least.

 

 

[[31st] Spider]

Nighteyes' argument is valid for the working of the TMS aft, not for the working of the CZ. The CZ should clear the deltas. Also because it makes no sense to have a CZ in VIS mode that does something else than a CZ in PRE mode. A CZ should always be a CZ.

Edited November 26, 2023 by [31st] Spider

[RogueRunner]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:57 PM, [31st] Spider said:

Nighteyes' argument is valid for the working of the TMS aft, not for the working of the CZ. The CZ should clear the deltas. Also because it makes no sense to have a CZ in VIS mode that does something than a CZ in PRE mode. A CZ should always be a CZ.

 

For me also, now that I read the mini updates thread I get how it works, however switching from VIS/DTOS to PRE and doing a TMS aft short does not do a CZ, clicking the osb on the TGP does however. 

 

Another thing for me is the TGP is in different operating states between NAV mode and A/G mode. In A/G mode it was active but switching to NAV mode it's in STBY mode. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by RogueRunner

[LastRifleRound]

On 11/14/2023 at 5:43 AM, nighteyes2017 said:

following the entire discussion along so far, it looks like most of the confusion is around the vis mode and the delta that designating introduces. undesignating puts the spi back on the FPM but does not reset the delta. 

Like the others, this at first, does did not make sense to me. Why would you move an important reference in the hud in vis mode, and not make it reset?

However, as Lord Vader has said, this seems to be real life implementation. So i have been asking myself: why would they design it like this in real life?

Then i remembered a handy feature from the harrier that looks a lot like this. Its been some time since i flew the harrier, but i seem to remember it also has a visual marker that is placed at the point where you threw your last bomb. So when you come around for another pass, and are looking for the target area, you have a reference of where that was. Remember, we are talking about visual mode here, wich probably means we are also talking about a target of oppertunity, and not a pre planned target with a steerpoint on top of it, but rather something that doesnt have a reference point at all.

So, following those circumstances, if we designate visually at a target location, wich is away from the steerpoint where we started, and we fire a weapon at it, we now have a marker were that was. And then when we come around, we have a reference point. tms down in that case, shouldn't reset the delta, because you would want to keep that reference until you are done launching  your next weapon.

This is the only reason i could come up with so far as to why the real life designers would implement it like this. It still may be a bug, but looking the logic from the perspective of a target of oppertunity, this makes some sense at least.

 

 

This isn't exactly correct.

1. Standard procedure in the viper is to switch to CCIP once a pre-planned target has been visually acquired, which is why the NWS cycling order is the way it is (CCRP->CCIP->DTOS->CCRP). CCIP does not necessarily equate to an attack on a TOO. Not a problem in and of itself.

2. The problem isn't that the reference point slews persist in VIS modes, it's that they bleed over into PRE modes (again, not necessarily a problem, might be the way it works) and can only be zero'd by hopping into a PRE mode (this is the weird part). You should be able to zero VIS slews in VIS, since every other SOI and modality demands it be zero'd by itself in its own mode. (HUD slews must be 0 in the HUD, TGP in the TGP, FCR in the FCR, so VIS is a HUD slew and should be zero'd in the HUD in VIS mode). The procedure breaks the logic presented in the write-up. Either the write-up is wrong or this procedure is, they can't both be right.