Cold and dark process?

[Voyager]

Been watching some F-4 start up procedures in YouTube, and it seems really simple: crew chief applies external air and power, open the fuel to the left engine, turn on the igniter, turn on the engine starter, wait until it's on, turn off the starter and igniter, turn on the left generator, rinse and repeat for the right engine, send off the ground crew, then turn on lights and avionics you need. 

 

Is it really that simple? Or are there steps that aren't being modeled in most simulated versions of it? 

[Rudel_chw]

10 minutes ago, Voyager said:

Is it really that simple?

 

At least, the real F-4E has 66 steps of Interior Checks, then 4 more before starting engines, 23 on Starting Engines, and 21 more steps before taxi.

[Dragon1-1]

They're checks, though, which means most of them will basically amount to "make sure the x switch is in the right position". Some tests will be more involved, but for most part, it is that simple in any jet without an INS. The Tomcat works mostly the same, for instance, save for the hydraulics check inbetween starting the engines, and the fact that the RIO has to set the INS up. You can expect a similar level of complexity as in the Tomcat.

[Voyager]

@Dragon1-1 The Tomcat is definitely more complex, because it has the cross pumps, the avionics that need to be turned on on the ground and the wing control computer to mess up. 

And, as I recall, you're supposed to disconnect the ground air supply once the first engine is up too. 

Edit: forgot you also have to set the brakes mode and whether you're in a ground or naval config too. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Voyager

[Dragon1-1]

You keep the ground air supply connected through. As for avionics, Phantom has plenty of those, too, as well as hydraulics to check, only with no crossfeed pump. It simplifies startup, but there'll be other tests, I suspect. It doesn't have the wing control, but that's it.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Dragon1-1

[zarusoba10]

HB says there will be a "walkaround pre-flight check." So, before entering the cockpit, the first step may be to pull out the aircraft's safety pin.

If you're carrying over body wear and tear data from a previous mission, you'll probably have to do a more thorough checklist of warning lights and instrument movements.

HB says that the aircraft's mechanical state can be saved at any time and loaded into a mission at any time.
Therefore, the positions of the switches operated in previous missions are probably also saved. Therefore, it would be a good idea to check the positions of the switches in the checklist properly in DCS as well.

Edited November 21, 2023 by zarusoba10

[Zabuzard]

The plain minimal cold start, provided everything is working as expected and in the default state, is indeed quite simple and mostly just:

• external air (or starter cartridges)
• external power (or battery)
• start engine
• throttle out of idle
• generator on

At that point, you can pretty much already taxi around. Ofc you might in practice also want to setup some other systems and give the WSO time to do the INS alignment.

Other systems you might want to setup include:

• lights
• volumes
• radio, intercom
• VOR
• oxygen
• AFCS (autopilot system, ...)
• countermeasures

And for the WSO it would roughly be:

• radar
• laser code
• INS
• weapon computer
• nav system
• IFF and ECM

Edited November 21, 2023 by Zabuzard

[Dragon1-1]

What kind of INS does the Phantom have? I know they used TACAN a lot, and bad weather was a challenge for Phantom drivers. 

[Omega417]

6 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

The plain minimal cold start, provided everything is working as expected and in the default state, is indeed quite simple and mostly just:

Instructions too complex, I will require a video to understand those words you are typing.

[Voyager]

9 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

The plain minimal cold start, provided everything is working as expected and in the default state, is indeed quite simple and mostly just:

• external air (or starter cartridges)
• external power (or battery)
• start engine
• throttle out of idle
• generator on

At that point, you can pretty much already taxi around. Ofc you might in practice also want to setup some other systems and give the WSO time to do the INS alignment.

Other systems you might want to setup include:

• lights
• volumes
• radio, intercom
• VOR
• oxygen
• AFCS (autopilot system, ...)
• countermeasures

And for the WSO it would roughly be:

• radar
• laser code
• INS
• weapon computer
• nav system
• IFF and ECM

 

My last (and first) experience with the F-4 was in Jane's Wings over Vietnam. And I remember have *no clue* what was going on in the cockpit. It was just a wall of dials and gauges and scopes that I had no clue what they did or how they worked.

And I'd been flying sims since the Battlehawks 1942 and Jane's US Navy Fighters, so it was a real shock stepping into a plane I simply did not understand anything in. 

It's definitely a weird feeling coming back to it after all this time, and discovering in some ways it is simpler than even a WWII bird. 

Looking forward to finally being able to really learn this jet.