Pimax Crystal blurry edges

[Dentedend10]

Hi,

I've just got a new Pimax Crystal. While I'm loving the resolution in the sweet spot, I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to make the edges less blurry, or distorted. I'm coming from a Quest Pro which really has the edge to edge clarity, albeit with lower resolution. In the Pimax Crystal, if I'm looking down or to the sides (for the instrument panel let's say), I notice that it's a little bit blurry. Not a deal breaker, but I was really hoping for that 'perfect' headset

I'm running quad views which is working well. Not sure what the reason is, or if it's inherent in the design of the headset.

Any input is appreciated!

Thanks

[j9murphy]

I'm probably unique, but I got HonsVR Lens inserts to replace my glasses in the Crystal, and they actually improved clarity to the edge for me a some.  Don't know if that's just correcting my astigmatism or I just got lucky, but it did help.

[hsth]

Have you tried the eye tracking calibration?

With the QuadViews Companion app you can then define the size of the 'window' where the high clear picture is projected that follows your eye movement. Sometimes, under certain conditions, you might see that outside the window the picture is more blurred.

[Dentedend10]

1 hour ago, hsth said:

Have you tried the eye tracking calibration?

With the QuadViews Companion app you can then define the size of the 'window' where the high clear picture is projected that follows your eye movement. Sometimes, under certain conditions, you might see that outside the window the picture is more blurred.

Yes it’s all calibrated and working. I’d say 70-80% of the FOV is clear, just the closer I look to the edges, the blurrier it is. I’m afraid it might be the lens design. Kind of reminds me of my G2 , which had a sweet spot in the middle. Of course the sweet spot on this one is much larger, but not edge to edge

[Peedee]

12 hours ago, Dentedend10 said:

Hi,

I've just got a new Pimax Crystal. While I'm loving the resolution in the sweet spot, I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to make the edges less blurry, or distorted. I'm coming from a Quest Pro which really has the edge to edge clarity, albeit with lower resolution. In the Pimax Crystal, if I'm looking down or to the sides (for the instrument panel let's say), I notice that it's a little bit blurry. Not a deal breaker, but I was really hoping for that 'perfect' headset

I'm running quad views which is working well. Not sure what the reason is, or if it's inherent in the design of the headset.

Any input is appreciated!

Thanks

I wouldn’t judge the quality of the edge to clarity with Quadview running.
 

That being said, it is not as sharp at the extreme edges as it is in the center. But I would still call it very good edge to edge clarity. It is really at the very outer edges that it's not perfect. If Quest Pro is also perfect that far toward the edges, then hats off for Meta using so good lenses.

And I would never dream of putting my G2 into this comparison  because that falls off just outside the very center

Edited November 21, 2023 by Peedee

[Dentedend10]

55 minutes ago, Peedee said:

I wouldn’t judge the quality of the edge to clarity with Quadview running.
 

That being said, it is not as sharp at the extreme edges as it is in the center. But I would still call it very good edge to edge clarity. It is really at the very outer edges that it's not perfect. If Quest Pro is also perfect that far toward the edges, then hats off for Meta using so good lenses.

And I would never dream of putting my G2 into this comparison  because that falls off just outside the very center

 

Thanks, I’ll try it without Quadviews tonight!

yea Meta lenses are indeed very good, just wish they had higher res

[eFirehawk]

I have the same problem here. The blurriness of the edges while a huge improvement from my G2 is still annoying. Tried both with and without QFR. But... could be that it's because I'm using prescription lenses from HonsVR, level -1.5

Please let us know if you ever manage to mitigate this issue.

[j9murphy]

I also got HonsVR lenses.  The first set I got were overcorrected for the Pimax  (even though they were the correct prescription) leading to a lot of coma at the edge and bending of the image.  I let them know and they sent me replacements that were dialed down a little bit - they work MUCH better.  Much better clarity at the edges and much less "bowing" of the image. From what I understand this is often necessary with the Crystal because the focal distance is somewhat less than other headsets and the distance that an eyeglass prescription is meant for.

Edited November 21, 2023 by j9murphy

[Dentedend10]

2 hours ago, j9murphy said:

I also got HonsVR lenses.  The first set I got were overcorrected for the Pimax  (even though they were the correct prescription) leading to a lot of coma at the edge and bending of the image.  I let them know and they sent me replacements that were dialed down a little bit - they work MUCH better.  Much better clarity at the edges and much less "bowing" of the image. From what I understand this is often necessary with the Crystal because the focal distance is somewhat less than other headsets and the distance that an eyeglass prescription is meant for.

 

Interesting. I don’t have any prescription glasses but I do have the issue for now. Will give it a try without quadviews tonight. For the price I don’t really want to take that compromise, maybe I’ll need to wait a little longer

[Dentedend10]

Unfortunately quadviews on or off did not change my perception. 
while this headset is great for racing where I’m focused mostly on the road in front of me, it won’t work for me flying where I constantly have to check instruments by just looking down. This headset does remind of me of my G2 in the way that I have to ‘look’ with my head again instead of just glancing down, like I can in the Quest Pro.

while I’d give the Aero a try, not having inside out tracking as well as no easy controller option, it’s not for me. 
I’ll likely need to wait for the next generation of headsets, with Quest Pro edge to edge clarity and Pimax Crystal resolution. Hopefully it’s not too far away, future of VR is looking bright

[j9murphy]

someone on redit posted a few weeks ago (who also didn't wear glasses), that because the crystal focus distance is so close that they went to store and picked a couple of cheap reading glasses at various low strengths.  One of the low power ones made a huge difference so they ordered the honsvr lenses of the same prescription.  Of course waiting for nexgen is also a good option:)  cheers.

[eFirehawk]

17 hours ago, j9murphy said:

I also got HonsVR lenses.  The first set I got were overcorrected for the Pimax  (even though they were the correct prescription) leading to a lot of coma at the edge and bending of the image.  I let them know and they sent me replacements that were dialed down a little bit - they work MUCH better.  Much better clarity at the edges and much less "bowing" of the image. From what I understand this is often necessary with the Crystal because the focal distance is somewhat less than other headsets and the distance that an eyeglass prescription is meant for.

 

Would you mind sharing the before and after levels? My real glasses are -1.5 and so were the Crystal lenses, but I ordered a -1.0 set for the Crystal some days ago hoping to reduce severe eye strain, which is a problem I never had with the G2. Will also post if it helps with the coma and blurriness too... will be a welcome unexpected surprise if it does.

[j9murphy]

Before -3.5/-3.25, After -2.5/-2.25

honestly, for me probably could have gone to -2.25/-2, but I have no complaints.

 

[Peedee]

10 hours ago, Dentedend10 said:

Unfortunately quadviews on or off did not change my perception. 
while this headset is great for racing where I’m focused mostly on the road in front of me, it won’t work for me flying where I constantly have to check instruments by just looking down. This headset does remind of me of my G2 in the way that I have to ‘look’ with my head again instead of just glancing down, like I can in the Quest Pro.

Sorry to hear that things didn´t work out for you with the Crystal. 

But to me what you are writing does not at all make ANY sense! No, I´m not saying you are not experiencing the things you write - but I just can´t understand why, what is going on?

If anyone asked me about differences between G2 and Crystal - I´d say (among other things of course) that the FOV is noticebly better, the edge to edge clarity is way way better, in the Crystal everything is clear, you DON´T (sorry the shouting, hehe) have to look down with your head to see the instruments clearly -  just move your eyes - and that fact together with an execellent vertical field of view makes it perfect for flight sims.

Earlier I wrote that it was really at the very outer edges that it lost some clarity, and by that I meant REALLY at VERY (sorry shouting again ) Outer edges. Not meaning, "yeah if you look down at the instrument panels it is not sharp". Because they are sharp. I meant so far down that it is unnatural to look so far down without tilting your head ever slightly also in real life. So all instruments are clear for me, just moving my eyes. A big selling point above all my other headsets.. 

So, what could be going on... bad headset lenses, Pimax quality control gone wrong (missing)? Or did I get a golden sample??

Hmmm, anyway, sorry to hear you can´t get it to work. I think it is an execellent headset of course. Still got my G2, Quest 2, Pimax 8KX and Pico 4 here. Not sold them yet, but stopped using them. Except for Pico 4 for using stand alone mode which can be fun

My biggest complaint about the Crystal is the battery. Just silly with this headset. Well well. After using this since the beginning of September, it seems that the face padding has softened up a bit, so the comfort has improved a bit too. A bit front heavy still, but when I get strap/padding at the back of my head low enough it balances OK. Heard there are 3rd party solutions for it as well.

[Dentedend10]

19 minutes ago, Peedee said:

Sorry to hear that things didn´t work out for you with the Crystal. 

But to me what you are writing does not at all make ANY sense! No, I´m not saying you are not experiencing the things you write - but I just can´t understand why, what is going on?

If anyone asked me about differences between G2 and Crystal - I´d say (among other things of course) that the FOV is noticebly better, the edge to edge clarity is way way better, in the Crystal everything is clear, you DON´T (sorry the shouting, hehe) have to look down with your head to see the instruments clearly -  just move your eyes - and that fact together with an execellent vertical field of view makes it perfect for flight sims.

Earlier I wrote that it was really at the very outer edges that it lost some clarity, and by that I meant REALLY at VERY (sorry shouting again ) Outer edges. Not meaning, "yeah if you look down at the instrument panels it is not sharp". Because they are sharp. I meant so far down that it is unnatural to look so far down without tilting your head ever slightly also in real life. So all instruments are clear for me, just moving my eyes. A big selling point above all my other headsets.. 

So, what could be going on... bad headset lenses, Pimax quality control gone wrong (missing)? Or did I get a golden sample??

Hmmm, anyway, sorry to hear you can´t get it to work. I think it is an execellent headset of course. Still got my G2, Quest 2, Pimax 8KX and Pico 4 here. Not sold them yet, but stopped using them. Except for Pico 4 for using stand alone mode which can be fun

My biggest complaint about the Crystal is the battery. Just silly with this headset. Well well. After using this since the beginning of September, it seems that the face padding has softened up a bit, so the comfort has improved a bit too. A bit front heavy still, but when I get strap/padding at the back of my head low enough it balances OK. Heard there are 3rd party solutions for it as well.

Might be hard to understand if you haven’t tried the Quest Pro. 
but here is an example:

flying Case III in F14. Have my eyes on the HUD, but I want to check my lower display for distance to the boat. In the Quest Pro that’s just a quick glance down. In the Crystal, if I just glance down I cannot make out the distance. So I have to tilt my head a bit. 
I never said the G2 has similar FOV. Obviously the Crystal has much larger FOV with a larger zone in focus. It does not change the fact that if I just look down and see the blurry edges, it breaks the immersion somewhat. While the QPro’s visuals aren’t as good, wherever you look it’s the same quality, which helps immersion. 
I’d like to keep this headset and love it, but for now I just can’t justify a 2K (CAD) upgrade for something that has this kind of drawback. 
The battery has been working well for me for some reason. It has not died, in fact seems like It stays charged. Comfort initially wasn’t great, but then I saw a video on Pimax how to fit it and pulling the back strap further down really helped it. 
thanks for your opinion, I’m sure if I came straight from G2 I’d be blown away. I still am by the visuals, just that damn edge to edge clarity on the Pro had me spoiled

3 hours ago, j9murphy said:

someone on redit posted a few weeks ago (who also didn't wear glasses), that because the crystal focus distance is so close that they went to store and picked a couple of cheap reading glasses at various low strengths.  One of the low power ones made a huge difference so they ordered the honsvr lenses of the same prescription.  Of course waiting for nexgen is also a good option:)  cheers.

Thanks! I might give that a try

[j9murphy]

3 minutes ago, Dentedend10 said:

...I want to check my lower display for distance to the boat. In the Quest Pro that’s just a quick glance down. In the Crystal, if I just glance down I cannot make out the distance. So I have to tilt my head a bit. 

are you using QVFR with eyetracking or FFR?

[Peedee]

41 minutes ago, Dentedend10 said:

Might be hard to understand if you haven’t tried the Quest Pro. 
but here is an example:

flying Case III in F14. Have my eyes on the HUD, but I want to check my lower display for distance to the boat. In the Quest Pro that’s just a quick glance down. In the Crystal, if I just glance down I cannot make out the distance. So I have to tilt my head a bit. 

This is what I don´t understand  Shouldn´t be like this. I don´t have to tilt my head   That is a big win for me with the Crystal.

Nope, havent´t tried the Quest Pro, but from everything I´ve read the lenses are execellent   

I want the design and weight of Big Screen Beyond, inside out tracking, the panels of Pimax Crystal, and lens quality of the Quest Pro  Aaand the FOV of the 8KX   One day....

[Dentedend10]

1 hour ago, j9murphy said:

are you using QVFR with eyetracking or FFR?

QVfr with eye tracking, but also tried disabling it

 

55 minutes ago, Peedee said:

This is what I don´t understand  Shouldn´t be like this. I don´t have to tilt my head   That is a big win for me with the Crystal.

Nope, havent´t tried the Quest Pro, but from everything I´ve read the lenses are execellent   

I want the design and weight of Big Screen Beyond, inside out tracking, the panels of Pimax Crystal, and lens quality of the Quest Pro  Aaand the FOV of the 8KX   One day....

Wouldn’t that be something!

Edited November 22, 2023 by Dentedend10

[Dentedend10]

I tried to capture what my issue is, partly because I opened a ticket with Pimax and they want a capture as well.

It is not something that I can capture though. The screenshots are taken of what the panels are showing. I think the problem comes from the lenses.

In this example, I have the QPro and the Pimax Crystal compared. Both with quadviews, looking at the right vertical panel. In the QPro, what I see is represented in the screenshot. However, in the Pimax Crystal, while the screenshot looks good, in reality what I'm seeing is blurred text. And as you can see from the image I'm not looking at the extreme edge.

I'm also attaching a screenshot in the Pimax with the same head positioning, but looking at that 'sweetspot', where everything is gorgeous. This just shows that I need to look close to the center in the headset to stay in that sweetspot. The closer to the edges I get, the less clear things get. With the QPro, while the resolution might be less, looking around is much nicer.

You can also notice the larger vertical FOV and slightly bigger horizontal FOV of the pimax, as well as the higher resolution.

I haven't tried the glasses as mentioned above, but to be honest it's not my job to find out what the issue with their lenses is.

Since files are too big, they are in my google folder

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iN0zsovPoJgQtx0zDxXpzecdp1kdrvBB?usp=drive_link

[eFirehawk]

7 hours ago, Dentedend10 said:

I tried to capture what my issue is, partly because I opened a ticket with Pimax and they want a capture as well.

It is not something that I can capture though. The screenshots are taken of what the panels are showing. I think the problem comes from the lenses.

In this example, I have the QPro and the Pimax Crystal compared. Both with quadviews, looking at the right vertical panel. In the QPro, what I see is represented in the screenshot. However, in the Pimax Crystal, while the screenshot looks good, in reality what I'm seeing is blurred text. And as you can see from the image I'm not looking at the extreme edge.

I'm also attaching a screenshot in the Pimax with the same head positioning, but looking at that 'sweetspot', where everything is gorgeous. This just shows that I need to look close to the center in the headset to stay in that sweetspot. The closer to the edges I get, the less clear things get. With the QPro, while the resolution might be less, looking around is much nicer.

You can also notice the larger vertical FOV and slightly bigger horizontal FOV of the pimax, as well as the higher resolution.

I haven't tried the glasses as mentioned above, but to be honest it's not my job to find out what the issue with their lenses is.

Since files are too big, they are in my google folder

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iN0zsovPoJgQtx0zDxXpzecdp1kdrvBB?usp=drive_link

I don't have a QPro but can understand the issue I believe. Like I said, same here. I got a second set of prescription lenses today, dialed down a little bit and no dice. I also tried using the Crystal without glasses or lenses and although my vision is not good, it is definitely not terrible either and even like that I got the impression that the edges are indeed blurry, as if the sweet stop of the Crystal is a glorified G2 of sorts. Let us know how it goes with support.

[Dentedend10]

no luck. I’m sending the headset back. Hoping Varjo will reveal something cool tomorrow. 
some additional notes:

personally I need to fly with headphones on as my motion rig can get squeaky and some other noises from the apartment can break immersion. I find it hard to fit my existing headphones over the Pimax.

I had no issue with the battery and didn’t need to replace it once, due to the power hub I guess  

having the hand tracking and gesture recognition of the Quest Pro makes it overall the best headset for me for now. There might be some kind of hand tracking available for Pimax as well but I didn’t try setting it up. Gesture recognition is solely for the QuestPro I believe at this point, using HTCC

[Peedee]

8 hours ago, Dentedend10 said:

no luck. I’m sending the headset back. Hoping Varjo will reveal something cool tomorrow. 
some additional notes:

personally I need to fly with headphones on as my motion rig can get squeaky and some other noises from the apartment can break immersion. I find it hard to fit my existing headphones over the Pimax.

I had no issue with the battery and didn’t need to replace it once, due to the power hub I guess  

having the hand tracking and gesture recognition of the Quest Pro makes it overall the best headset for me for now. There might be some kind of hand tracking available for Pimax as well but I didn’t try setting it up. Gesture recognition is solely for the QuestPro I believe at this point, using HTCC

That´s sad to hear. I was hoping you would figure it out.

A few things to mention - probably nothing to do with your case. But...just in case...

As we know the Crystal runs "natively" at a rather high resolution, I think 4300x5100 something - too correct for all distoritions and such. Going somewhat lower than that, you will still get a very good picture. In DCS I run mine at 3800x4497 - set by OpenXR Toolkit Override resolution function. Or is it 4000xsomething?? Don´t remember what I use right now. Anyway... Going way lower and it impacts the picture quality clearly, and I would say more so first towards the edges. It becomes more visible there first for me anyway.

I also have a Reverb G2, that I had used on this same computer sometime before I installed my Pimax Software and starting using the Crystal. And - I was not very impressed by the Crystal. Seemed better, somewhat crispier picture...the colors were better anyway, but... not worth the money. This was in the beginning, and the software/games I used was run through SteamVR. And that was were my problems were - but I didn´t know. 

But - if you have had the G2 on the same system before, and SteamVR is running - the highest/maximum resolution rendered will be decided by a numer in a settings file from SteamVR. And that resolution is just above 3200x3200. Now, that low resoution clearly impacted the experience of the Crystal. Known as the G2 resolution bug...

You can set your resolution as high as you want in either Pimax Play or SteamVR settings menu. But - you only get 3200x3200 ish no matter what. Solution - enter that settings file and delete that line or set the value as something way higher than you´ll ever use with the Crystal. You can check if you're being capped by looking at the value of "maxRecommendedResolution" in the C:\Program Files(x86)\Steam\config\steamvr.vrsettings file.

Anway, this is probably not what happened to you, because most likely you didn´t use SteamVR at all when playing DCS. PimaxXR is the way to go, and that is not affected by that "bug". But I wanted to just mention this in this thread in case some others have that problem - or if they play some games using SteamVR. Project Cars 2 for example...I heard about this bug just by coincidence and was so happy I did. For a afternoon just after I got it I was really concerned there was something wrong with my Crystal. But it was just a number in a settings file.

I´m afraid Varjos next headset is not meant for the consumer market, but maybe it will come a down graded consumer version some time later just like with Varjo Aero. Varjo XR4 - since they are hinting the nr 4 in the pictures I´ve seen. We´ll find out later today. But - I am hoping for something exciting from Varjo

Enjoy flying in your Quest Pro! Hope Pimax don´t give you any trouble for returning it

[Dentedend10]

In the end, I am keeping the headset. The following things led me to this conclusion:

this video made me understand that I cannot expect the same kind of clarity from the Crystal’s aspheric lenses compared to the QPro’s pancake lenses. While it does not have the edge to edge clarity and it will require me to adjust to moving my head more once again, the clarity in the sweet spot is amazing. 
Also, this headset is perfect for racing, where you focus on a narrow area. Again, the higher resolution really stands out here and I’m having a blast in racing sims with it.

the chromatic aberration and the lack of edge to edge clarity are the compromises for me with this headset. However, I don’t see anything coming in the near future that would be an upgrade. Varjo let me down with no Aero 2  I guess the next step will be a high resolution headset with pancake lenses, maybe a QPro 2 in the future. 

Thanks for everyone’s input!

[PawlaczGMD]

https://almalence.com/dlplugin/

 

This plugin improves clarity and reduces blurriness noticeably.

But generally it is a physical limitation of the lenses.

[Dentedend10]

14 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

https://almalence.com/dlplugin/

 

This plugin improves clarity and reduces blurriness noticeably.

But generally it is a physical limitation of the lenses.

THanks for your reply. Unfortunately this app is not compatible with the supersampling I run my Foveated area (200x) at. Hopefully in the future they fix that.