Aim-7P and other Fox 1 missiles being guided without STT???

[Czar66]

This is a weird one. I searched on the forums about the Aim-7P being guided without STT and found nothing about it. I have read on this forum about the Aim-7P guidance system being able to reacquire a track after the guiding radar losing lock by the same radar reacquiring STT.

I then went to test this and found that........... the AIM-7P can hit a target without a lock???
 

Is this correct??
The mission is empty with just 3 client F-14A air spawn and an immortal A-50.
To unlock from STT I used high vertical scan to take the radar antenna away from the target in the video, and PLM on the empty sky to get out of STT as well had the same outcome.

Edit: To add, same behavior happens against a Yak-40 airliner as well, to exclude it being the missile tracking an ECM signal.

Also, on another mission last week I got hit with a silent R-27R without being guided by its MiG-29A (AI) radar as the mig was facing the complete opposite direction at one time (almost 180° away, nose down) as it was defending from my sparrow. Image attached. I shrugged it off as possibly being a bug and having no practical proof to post on the forum at the time as the track file is too large because it was a long co-op session with lots of objects.

Am I confusing something??? For more than 10 years playing DCSW I thought these missiles needed STT. Sorry if I'm miss understanding something here.

Addition: This behavior on the AIM-7P cannot be replicated on the F-18.

ECM was off. I'm don't usually use it on the 14.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Czar66
More info.

[Whiskey11]

The F-14 one is easy enough to explain... the F-14 will default to a Flood mode if lock is dropped after launch of an AIM-7.  Flood mode is a degraded guidance mode in which the AWG-9 just spams radar out in front of the F-14 along the datumline (the cross in the hud).  There is also the possibility of the aircraft you were flying against using ECM and having it operate in HOJ.  I've had HOJ hit jamming targets as far as 32nmi away.  Pretty sneaky!

The second one is confusing if you weren't using ECM in any way... then again, I had an R-27ET track through 34 flares and me diving for the ground, so maybe there is something up with missile guidance.  A bug report usually works best if you can replicate the issue and post a track (not a Tacview, a track file).

Edited December 21, 2023 by Whiskey11

[Czar66]

13 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

The F-14 one is easy enough to explain... the F-14 will default to a Flood mode if lock is dropped after launch of an AIM-7.  Flood mode is a degraded guidance mode in which the AWG-9 just spams radar out in front of the F-14 along the datumline (the cross in the hud).  There is also the possibility of the aircraft you were flying against using ECM and having it operate in HOJ.  I've had HOJ hit jamming targets as far as 32nmi away.  Pretty sneaky!

The second one is confusing if you weren't using ECM in any way... then again, I had an R-27ET track through 34 flares and me diving for the ground, so maybe there is something up with missile guidance.  A bug report usually works best if you can replicate the issue and post a track (not a Tacview, a track file).

 

Hi.

I dropped the lock via high VSL HI making the radar look up, away from the target. Would the flood mode still work?
Both practice targets doesn't have ECMs. A-50 and a Yak-40.

I could not replicate the issue with the F/A-18C with Aim-7P.

About the second one: That was a R-27R radar guided missile, different from R-27ET as that is a infrared seeking missile. To add: I could not replicate while flying the MiG-29A, so something else might have happened on that mission.

Thanks!

[Whiskey11]

When the F14 loses an AIM7 lock the flood antenna moves along the VSL HI/VSL LO searches in sequence... so it's possible it got on the flood mode. I'm working this weekend, so it'll be next week before I can do any testing, but I'll try to. 

 

If you run the test again and turn completely away, does it still guide?

 

I'm aware the R27R is not an ET, I was implying there might be an issue with R27's in general since the ET I got hit with went through 2/3rds my flare loadout while my own AIM9's get flared off with a few flares.