ECM Coverage Limits

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

Much like a radar can only cover one area of the sky at a time and has azimuth and elevation limits, so too should any ECM pod/module installed on an aircraft. Currently in game, (as far as I can tell), any aircraft with ECM capability can jam any radar source at any relative elevation and azimuth (see images and track below illustrating basic example). In the future, I am hopeful ED will model some sort of ECM coverage limit for each jammer that will further contribute to the realism of DCS. Even if said coverage limits are "unrealistic" (i.e. too severe or too lenient), it will still be better than what we have now. 

 

Edit: For anyone wondering what I am trying to show in the example, it is that my aircraft (the F-16 to the right in figure one) is being jammed by every REDFOR aircraft (to the left in figure one) even though I am very likely outside of their ECM jammers azimuth limit. 

ECM Jam.trk

Edited February 5 by DCS FIGHTER PILOT

[Furiz]

I'd like to see this improved as well, but do you have any public source of info on how these jammers work?

[peterbrownbyu]

Depending on what specific systems you're talking about, they may very well be omnidirectional. In fact, in the case of self defense jammers, they typically are (at least as far as public info suggests). Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're assuming that jamming pods are most efficient when they're pointing directly at the emitter they're countering, and this typically isn't the case. Antennas (generally, depending on the type) are typically most powerful when they're broadside to the receiver, so the fact that the aircraft are not hot or cold to you would probably increase their jamming effectiveness, not decrease it

Plus, ironically, the further away jammers are from you the more effective they usually are up to a point. Inverse square laws and all that. If you're mathematically inclined, give this a read if you have time. It's unclassified and does a great job of laying out the foundations of how ew systems work

Not every system allows you to put energy on a certain azimuth, those are typically reserved for electronic attack systems, like the ALQ-99E pictured below. You can see how the different jamming antennas physically swivel to put jamming energy where it needs to go

Newer systems, like the ALQ-249 pictured here, use phased arrays to steer the jamming beams. This takes up quite a bit of space and makes for a wide pod

Unfortunately air to air radars and ECM systems are usually the more secretive ones, so there's less public info out there. Fortunately however, that is the most boring part of EW, and the cool part of EW (namely electronic attack in support of the SEAD mission) is much more well documented. Hopefully we see some improvements on that front, and maybe if we're good we'll get accurate simulations of SAM radars / dedicated jamming platforms / wild weasel airframes in DCS as a treat 

Edited February 6 by peterbrownbyu

[Mike_Romeo]

9 hours ago, Furiz said:

I'd like to see this improved as well,

From the 2024 and beyond roadmap

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

13 hours ago, peterbrownbyu said:

Depending on what specific systems you're talking about, they may very well be omnidirectional. In fact, in the case of self defense jammers, they typically are (at least as far as public info suggests). Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're assuming that jamming pods are most efficient when they're pointing directly at the emitter they're countering, and this typically isn't the case. Antennas (generally, depending on the type) are typically most powerful when they're broadside to the receiver, so the fact that the aircraft are not hot or cold to you would probably increase their jamming effectiveness, not decrease it

Plus, ironically, the further away jammers are from you the more effective they usually are up to a point. Inverse square laws and all that. If you're mathematically inclined, give this a read if you have time. It's unclassified and does a great job of laying out the foundations of how ew systems work

Not every system allows you to put energy on a certain azimuth, those are typically reserved for electronic attack systems, like the ALQ-99E pictured below. You can see how the different jamming antennas physically swivel to put jamming energy where it needs to go

Newer systems, like the ALQ-249 pictured here, use phased arrays to steer the jamming beams. This takes up quite a bit of space and makes for a wide pod

Unfortunately air to air radars and ECM systems are usually the more secretive ones, so there's less public info out there. Fortunately however, that is the most boring part of EW, and the cool part of EW (namely electronic attack in support of the SEAD mission) is much more well documented. Hopefully we see some improvements on that front, and maybe if we're good we'll get accurate simulations of SAM radars / dedicated jamming platforms / wild weasel airframes in DCS as a treat 

 

Thanks for the link. Lately I have been reading a bunch of stuff on EW but a lot of it is hit or miss (which is not surprising given how much is classified).

In regards to what I am saying about the jamming pods, I am simply wondering (much like how a radar cannot scan outside of its gimbal limits), how can the ECM pods carried by the planes in my example (which appear to have fixed antennas pointing forward and aft (and correct me if I am wrong)) jam a radar source outside of their antenna limits? In the example, it appears as if I was outside of the azimuth scan limits of the jammer antennas and yet I was still being jammed. Again, it seems like there are no ECM coverage limits currently implemented in DCS which makes jamming too effective (at least in this case). Hopefully as Mike_Romeo pointed out though this will be addressed in the near future. 

 

 

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

So in this basic geometric example involving the Sorbitsya pod, given the jammer has antennas with the ability to cover 120 degrees in azimuth (which from my understanding is very high), in game, I am still jammed by him even though I am clearly outside of his pods coverage limits. 

[okopanja]

47 minutes ago, DCS FIGHTER PILOT said:

So in this basic geometric example involving the Sorbitsya pod, given the jammer has antennas with the ability to cover 120 degrees in azimuth (which from my understanding is very high), in game, I am still jammed by him even though I am clearly outside of his pods coverage limits. 

At first limit the coverage might sound as degrading the present ECM in flanker. However if coupled with realistic modeling of what this ECM system is able to do, it would also result in additional benefits (described in the manual your likely using). I would say nerfing the coverage without giving those additional benefits at the same time would really be ethically questionable.

With that said, given the fact that FC3 aircraft will likely not receive further development updates as they are declared feature complete , I do not expect there will be any change here. If I have to guess the ED's focus will be more on FF aircrafts. In this area we can say that the current behavior and options are too simplistic: basically offering you just 2 modes, when we clearly see there multiple possible combinations. Likely they meant improvements in this area.

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

55 minutes ago, okopanja said:

I would say nerfing the coverage without giving those additional benefits at the same time would really be ethically questionable.

 

Yes I do agree. Right now from what I understand, the Sorbitsya and every other jammer in DCS (except for the jammers on the Hornet and Viper which can use deceptive techniques), simply use barrage jamming (and possibly sweep jamming for the F-14??). Anyway, as basic as this is it can still prove extremely difficult (partly due to the lack of ECCM in game) to effectively attack a target that has protection from all sides. Even if more advanced jamming techniques are introduced, all of the jamming "hocus pocus" can only go so far as the jammers physical limits. This opens up the door for more complex strategies to effectively take down a target that's jamming. Anyway those are just my thoughts. 

Edited February 6 by DCS FIGHTER PILOT

[_Hoss]

LMAO...