Newbie making mission, help appreciated - mission for helicopter with a few objectives.

[hannibal]

im trying to make my first objective based mission. need help

my goal was to do a quick fun mission to entertain a doorgunner of any helo.
basically 5 objectives..
1) Fly to city (not super far for now)
2) Engage Hostile that are shooting on buildings, and along with some AAA emplacements
3) then trigger objective to Find Rescue Friendly on some building roof (smoke designation by the evacuees so that gunner can spot and direct pilot?)
4) Destroy Marked / designated buildings on way back to base (maybe a JTAC smoke designation or something, and have a fireworks show when the buildings are leveled)
5) Return to Base 
 

Im trying to learn about DML mission creation tool in the process as recommended by buddy

if anyone can make suggestions on how i can achieve, much appreciated

Edited March 19 by hannibal

[Exorcet]

It sounds like most of what you want can be done with triggers. DML should work as well but I have no experience with it.

Flying to a location can be checked with a trigger zone and a flag (ie Once unit in zone, Flag 1 is on). A little more advanced method is to write a short flag activation script at a particular waypoint, but you want to be careful about failure conditions. Example if the player misses the waypoint, the flag won't trigger. I like to combine different checks to make sure at least one succeeds. Though for what you want a simple trigger zone should be more than enough.

You can check that the hostiles are destroy with Group dead/damaged triggers. Here the failure mode for the trigger is more complex. Do you want to require all the enemies to be destroyed? If you do, how easy is that? You probably don't want the mission to hang just because one hidden infantry is alive somewhere. Using Group Alive less than x% would give you some leeway.

Smoke can be triggered on a trigger zone or unit

Returning to base would be another unit in trigger zone

[hannibal]

I like to place troops on rooftops  to engage friendly force.. but someone told me troops can't be triggered unless on the ground...

Is infantry on rooftops possible?

 

Thank u for reply @Exorcet and suggestion. I would like all enemies to be destroyed but I hear u about keeping in mind if player can't find that last enemy..

Edited March 19 by hannibal

[Exorcet]

Troops on buildings should work. The ME just places the unit on the highest point under their position. So if infantry is placed on a building, it should end up on top of that building. This might only work for the prebuilt buildings on the map and not for ones you add. I'm less sure about that.

[hannibal]

13 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

Troops on buildings should work. The ME just places the unit on the highest point under their position. So if infantry is placed on a building, it should end up on top of that building. This might only work for the prebuilt buildings on the map and not for ones you add. I'm less sure about that.

im reading more about DML... 

so in the DML manual it talks about triggers and spawning. 

so with his in mind.. can you place a normal unit from dcs editor and then apply something from DML? 

when my friend made a test mission to get me started, i went to mission editor to check out..but when i see his file, all i saw was zones, not indivually placed units...

 

basically i like to manually place units (in my case, troops on buildings) but then apply DML, for example attack / engage friendly units when hitting a trigger zone..

[cfrag]

4 minutes ago, hannibal said:

basically i like to manually place units (in my case, troops on buildings) but then apply DML, for example attack / engage friendly units when hitting a trigger zone..

Someone may have slightly misrepresented what DML can do. Those zones that you see is what tells DML where, when and what to do. But DML rarely controls troops - they do what DCS's AI tells them what to do. So, for example, you can use a 'cloner' from DML to spawn troops at the location that you put them in Mission Editor and then let them do theirt thing. For example, you place troops on rooftops exactly how you like them. Then place a "cloner" zone above them, and they disappear - until you trigger the cloner, and they magically apear, the perfect ambush. Triggering is where DML excels at - and randomizing the spawn locations. 

So, DML might work for you, and it can greatly shorten the time it takes to create missions like that. The downside: you need to learn a bit of DML before you can use it, so it's a mixed bag. Personally, if it catches you interest, look at some of the demos that come with it, and the descriptions - each demo has its own chapter in the shock block - then try for yourself. 

But beware... designing missions can be exceedingly addictive.   

[Exorcet]

15 minutes ago, hannibal said:

im reading more about DML... 

so in the DML manual it talks about triggers and spawning. 

so with his in mind.. can you place a normal unit from dcs editor and then apply something from DML?

Those are questions for cfrag, who fortunately has joined the thread.

15 minutes ago, hannibal said:

basically i like to manually place units (in my case, troops on buildings) but then apply DML, for example attack / engage friendly units when hitting a trigger zone..

You can tell units what to do with triggers. Specifically give them triggered actions and then use "AI Task Push" in the trigger menu.

You may want to post your mission, then someone here can look at it and give more specific advice. Or I could try to make a sample mission later to show the process.

[hannibal]

I started to read the DML document.. alot to take in. But seem like my first step is to load the DML into a mission. I hope to get started soon, going to configure a laptop with DCS and try to edit during my breaks!

Thanks guys. Will post something when I have something

My first step will be to 

A) put some vehicles that a multiplayer clients.

B) load DML into the mission file

C) put a mission briefing

Edited March 19 by hannibal

[hannibal]

trying to install.. but no installer... ended up download zip of the github and extracting contents into a folder.. and from video looks like i have to create a DML folder in saved games and put extracted contents into this folder?

user\Saved Games\DCS\Missions\Scripting\DML

Edited March 19 by hannibal

[hannibal]

10 hours ago, cfrag said:

Someone may have slightly misrepresented what DML can do. Those zones that you see is what tells DML where, when and what to do. But DML rarely controls troops - they do what DCS's AI tells them what to do. So, for example, you can use a 'cloner' from DML to spawn troops at the location that you put them in Mission Editor and then let them do theirt thing. For example, you place troops on rooftops exactly how you like them. Then place a "cloner" zone above them, and they disappear - until you trigger the cloner, and they magically apear, the perfect ambush. Triggering is where DML excels at - and randomizing the spawn locations. 

So, DML might work for you, and it can greatly shorten the time it takes to create missions like that. The downside: you need to learn a bit of DML before you can use it, so it's a mixed bag. Personally, if it catches you interest, look at some of the demos that come with it, and the descriptions - each demo has its own chapter in the shock block - then try for yourself. 

But beware... designing missions can be exceedingly addictive.   

ok, i dont want to spawn troops, but can i place place troops through the editor, and then have some kind of trigger will make some module happen when all the troops are elimnated? lets say i placed 5 units of 10 infantry (total of 50 troops) that will for example trigger smoke...   and i dont know if your cloner zone can spawn troops on rooftops only... @cfrag

 

so far this is what i did

000 DML Test_B.miz

Edited March 20 by hannibal

[cfrag]

5 hours ago, hannibal said:

can i place place troops through the editor, and then have some kind of trigger will make some module happen when all the troops are elimnated?

Definitely. There are many ways to do this, and you don't even need DML to do that. There are 'vanilla' ME trigger conditions that can do that for you, albeit using them is (at least to me) somewhat more of a hassle than what DML offers. We'll get to that soon - I like your mission's idea because they are straightforward, and to a point. 

In ME (and DML builds on that) we always separate things that units/troops do (fighting), and checking if some situation happens and then tell DCS to react in a way that modifies the mission, for example spawning new troops, blowing stuff up, or adding smoke. The first part is DCS's turf, we (mission creators) currently cannot change how AI works. The latter part is where DML offers us a ton of help: doing stuff. DML can't work miracles, it just makes many complex tasks more accessible to average (and in my case: lazy) mission creators.

Let us look at the situation that you describe that we are looking for: "all the troops are eliminated". To nit-pick (which is unfortunately necessary for the task of writing missions), by 'all the troops' you mean the red units that you have placed on roof of buildings in southern Poti. And by 'eliminated' you mean that they are dead. So the situation that we are looking for is 'all those units that I placed on the roof of buildings in southern Poti are dead'. And when that happens, we want to do something. Let's say we want to show some blue smoke close to those buildings (we could also display text, play sound effects, or initiate fireworks - something I only recommend in a mission at night time - or, or, or. The possibilities are limitless.

So the description of 'all the units that I placed...' is the condition WHEN something happens. In vanilla DCS, this is put into a rule trigger's condition and is evaluated roughly once per second, for the entire mission. In DML, you don't use rules as much as you simply place a specialized module that also perpetually looks for these things, except you don't write those rules in logic code, the module implicitly looks for these because that is why they were made. 

Once we determine that a situation that we describe has happened, in vanilla DCS the 'Action' part of a rule is enacted. There are a lot of things that you can put into DCS's actions, and some of them are even nicely documented. DML, on the other hand comes with very specific (and often helpful) things it does when the wanted situation arises: it spawns troops, sets off fireworks, starts smoke, plays sound and/or text, blows stuff up, etc. What makes DML a bit easier to use is the fact that since we use trigger zones to place modules, we not only control when stuff happens, but WHERE. This allows us to rapidly move our effects around. Oh, and usually use copy/paste to duplicate this all over the map (that's 90% of the work I did for the 'Angels' mission: copy/paste DML zones ) 

Now, let's come back to WHAT you want to do when 'all those troops' are dead: let's say that you want to start some blue smoke. DML has a 'smokeZone' module that does just that: it places smoke on the map. It has some nice-to-have additions that make it (IMHO) easier to use than DCS's plain colored smoke, but that's just the icing. So, let's use a smoker and place it close to the houses with enemy troops on top. I name that trogger zone 'We are done here'.

Since this is DML, we also add a couple of attributes. If you look up smokeZones in the docs. you'll find that 'smoke' tells DML that this is a smoke zone, and the value 'blue' tells itg that the smoke to produce should be colored blue. 

The attribute 'paused' tells DML that the smoke zone should wait for signal to start smoking. Meaning: it will not produce smoke when the mission starts up but waits for a signal to start smoking. 

Which signal? Glad you asked. The 'startSmoke?' question tells DML that the smoke zone should keep its eyes peeled on the flag named 'done', and when the value of that flag changes, it should start doing its thing. And the last sentence is 90% of what DML is: waiting for a signal, and then doing what it should do. A smoke zone smokes. Cloners clone. Messengers send text or sound messages, etc.

But how do we find out that "all the troops" has happened? There are lots of ways to do that. In vanilla DCS, you'd create a new trigger rule that concatenates the conditions  "GROUP DEAD (Ground-1)" and "GROUP DEAD (Ground-2)" and when this has happened it will increase (change) the value of the flag named "done"

Above produces a "signal" (a change in the value of a flag) on the flag named "done". That will work, is quite straightforward, and a classic example of how you can easily integrate DML with vanilla DCS. When groups "Ground-1" and "Ground-2" are dead, the value of the flag named "done" is changed. The smoker, which is always looking at the flag named "done" sees the change, and reacts: blue smoke starts erupting from the center of the trigger zone "we are done here". 

Above is "the vanilla way". Definitely not Mandalorian: it's also boring, so let's kick this up a notch: let's use DML's built-in abilities to automatically provide a signal when it's time. The problem (for you right now, but probably not for very much longer) is to know which modules can produce such a signal at the right time, and when. 

If we browse the shock block, you'll find a module called 'groupTracker'. It's sole raison d'etre is to provide signals if something happens to groups that are inside the trigger zone.

So we place a trigger zone over the two groups on the buildings, call it "Tracker" and add attributes:

"tracker" tells DML that it should create a tracker with the name of this zone (which is "Tracker"). "trackWith:" tells DML that the units inside this zone should be tracked with a tracker named "Tracker", which happens to be the tracker attached to this zone (you can attach the "trackwith:" attributes to other zones as well to track multiple groups with one tracker, a quality of life thing). As a result, we tell DML that it should track all the groups inside the trigger zone with the tracker we attach to this zone. And "allGone!" (see the exclamation point. That's DML for telling you: this is a signal generator) tells DML that when all the groups that are being tracked are dead, it should send a signal (change the flag's value) of the flag named "done". 

That completes this small 'automaton":

• tracker tracks until all the units are dead, and then sends a signal on the flag named "done".
• smoker waits until it receives a signal on the flag named "done", and once it does, it produces blue smoke at the center of the trigger zone.

You may have noticed that the smoke zone "we are done here" has come to sit inside the "Tracker" trigger zone. This is just to show that this is of no consequence at all, and you don't have to mind other trigger zones when building with DML.

And that's it.

Now, there are way cooler things that you can do with DML, and my challenge to you is to re-build above with a cloner (yes, it can place units on roofs - not actively, it simply places them where you have placed them in ME), and use the cloner's ability to signal when all clones are dead. Can you do it? Have fun!  

 

000 DML Test_B - CFR.miz

Edited March 20 by cfrag

[hannibal]

wow @cfrag 

appreciate you for taking a moment to make a whole explanation. i started this thread maybe it could help someone else following along.

yea, i am new to triggers whether dcs or DML.

ultimately when the troops are eliminated, i want to set in motion a evac mission. i dont know if i can do a personal pickup from the top of the buildings.

but before i even can do that, i have to process every thing you jus shared.. but taking baby steps.

amazing, i was going to inquire about the tracker module later.. i had idea to keep score, should i expand it where multiple clients can see who had the most kill or something.

the mission is straight forward.. my intention is to showcase the helicopters with doorguns, and give some play for those who play multiplayer with a buddy, especially those friends that dont have dcs, at least play as a doorgun, and get the thrill as if playing one of those call of duty missions.

will check out your file! and see if i can recreate what u did.

much thanks to both of you!

[hannibal]

@cfrag reviewing your sample file.. pretty cool. so i see you added a tracker...

triggers section groupTracker and cfxSmokeZone..

each of the modules include zone and radius..

ok, rather than smoke.. i was trying to add gun emplacement. 

intention to have explosion when it is destroyed..

i am not sure what i have to put un the details of the trigger action.. 

the goal is that when the AA emplacement is destroyed, i like to see explosions and perhaps fireworks like blowing up a ammo dump kind of explosion... 

more help needed? i added my progress..

000 DML Test_C.miz

[cfrag]

1 hour ago, hannibal said:

ok, rather than smoke.. i was trying to add gun emplacement. 

intention to have explosion when it is destroyed..

I think it would greatly help if you elaborate a little bit more on your idea, so it is easier for poor old me to understand what you are looking for, and perhaps come up with good alternatives. Now, what I *think* I understood from above is that you want the following order of events:

• you have infantry on roofs in Poti
• once they are destroyed, a gun emplacement appears that the players must destroy
• once the gun emplacement is destroyed, some major explosions happen as a dramatic effect

Now, as it turns out, your mission suggests otherwise: you are not tracking the infantry, merely the Zoo 23 and all units are initially visible. So all we need is to apply what we learned from the initial mission and apply it to the Zoo (track it with a tracker, exactly as you are doing now in the update you posted), and trigger a different module than smoke when the emplacement is dead. 

There's really not much to it-except perhaps for picking the effect that marks the demise of the zoo. We already know how that effect will be triggered: by a signal on the 'done' flag that is fed from the  51tracker.

DML has a module called 'ground explosion' that fits your bill (and that you already found -- note: there was a silly bug (typo) in groundExplosion that I've fixed -- if you encounter those, please tell me immediately so I can fix them quickly and you don't have to wonder what's going on): it creates 1 to many explosions inside a trigger zone.

Please look up groundEplosion in the docs, and you'll see what the attributes do. Main thing: the 'boom?' input is wired to the flag 'done' which will receive a signal from the tracker once the Zoo is dead. One particularly nice thing about DML is that if one module can trigger on a signal flag (like 'done'), so can many. So I'm updating the one trigger zone '51explode' to attach the ground explosion module, and wire it to 'done', then I simply copy/paste the zone and place it over other areas. The result is are multiple explosions in different locations that ALL trigger at the same time. Very visceral (make sure you aren't too close in your helo), very cool, difficult to miss. And something that you can't do that easily in vanilla  

Oh, and since I'm lazy and don't want to fly there every time and battle through everything to see if everything checks out, I've added a new radio menu item to the 'other...' communication branch (using vanilla ME) that simply sets done to 1 (one) when you select it. This triggers the explosion. So all you need to do is enter the Huey, select map view, pan the map to Poti, select one of the units, press F7 to view everything. Then hit communications-->other-->Set Flag "done" to 1 and enjoy the fireworks. 

You may want to tone down the explosions if you plan to be there in a helo...

 

 

000 DML Test_C - CFR.miz

Edited March 21 by cfrag

[hannibal]

ok, got it. i should be clearer on the timeline of events for my mission.

actually the infantry are together with the emplacements...

1) Fly to near poti to the hostile (simple, just choose slot to join the helo and go... but i will ask if there is something that only spawns player occupied vehicles.. sometimes i see Ai taking off, rather not have Ai take off)

2) Engage Hostile that are shooting on buildings, and along with some AAA emplacements

so for this second objective, there are both infantry and AAA emplacements. there are their at the same time. but it is just the emplacements that will have explosions.

with the three AAA emplacements, i like the explosion to happen to each, but not relative to each other, so i assume there are tracker for each emplacement.

ultimately when both infantry and AAA are destroyed, this will trigger the next objective.. so i guess there is a track for all of the enemies... there's no order of explosion.. a player can kill some troops, then take out AAA #1 with following explosion, shoot at more infantry then see AAA #3 and take that out, boom,..and then work on the remaining troops and last AAA (this as an example)

 

im just trying to go step by step to understand!

 

going to check your example now...

thank you again @cfrag

 

edit.. i like the radio menu as "debugging" tool.. i just detonated the points.. lol very cool..

Edited March 21 by hannibal

[hannibal]

ive updated the groundexplosion module with ur script that was in ur recent miz file..

also seeing how u added the syntax / parameters... beginning to understand, i think i am able to do it the above!

 

Edited March 21 by hannibal

[hannibal]

also understanding how to read the documentation.. i guess this is a typo, boom instead..

null

Edited March 21 by hannibal

[cfrag]

17 minutes ago, hannibal said:

seeing how u added the syntax / parameters... beginning to understand, i think i am able to do it the above!

Ha! Great - you'll find DML to be quite simple to use once you get over the hump of 'signals' and 'flags'. Once you are done with this - and unless you already have begun doing so - we can explore 'stacking' modules, and of course tracker's ability to import other zone's units and the fact that we can use multiple trackers, and... (there's so much to explore . Try the messenger and/or valet next) 

[hannibal]

23 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Ha! Great - you'll find DML to be quite simple to use once you get over the hump of 'signals' and 'flags'. Once you are done with this - and unless you already have begun doing so - we can explore 'stacking' modules, and of course tracker's ability to import other zone's units and the fact that we can use multiple trackers, and... (there's so much to explore . Try the messenger and/or valet next) 

yes, i like to try to add voice message as well.. but not there yet.. 

i like to ask is there a way to get this kind of explosion that is in this video? i see flare like things popping out..

go to 8:00 

 

[Exorcet]

4 minutes ago, hannibal said:

i like to ask is there a way to get this kind of explosion that is in this video? i see flare like things popping out..

That is an ammunition explosion. Certain buildings will detonate that way, I believe all the ammunition warehouses in the static object list. I don't think you can generate that explosion arbitrarily, but you can place a warehouse nearby and force it to blow up.

[cfrag]

58 minutes ago, hannibal said:

boom instead

Huh. Yeah. 

.... actually, I was just testing if you are RTFM-ing. Right....

I guess I changed that after some kind but worried soul told me (a non-native English speaker) that 'blow' has some connotations that make uptight US people squeamish.  

So "boom?" it is. I'll update the docs

Edited March 21 by cfrag

[cfrag]

13 minutes ago, hannibal said:

i see flare like things popping out..

well, there's an eye candy module called (you guessed it) called 'flareZone' that may be able to do something similar, merely trigger it at the same time as the explosion. Note, however, that effects like these are only good-looking al ground level, and when you are very close. However, this being a flight sim, you want to be neither, so it only looks cool for your camera if/when you create the B roll. In-cockpit you'd be further up, facing the other direction. 

[hannibal]

this mission was intend to show case doorgunners.. going to be some what up close? to give them the visual feel..

ok, ill look into flare zone..

i tested the radio menu trigger... sooooooo cool! lol i feel like i am playing with ppl's lives here..

 

btw, is there a way to make troops not to react and move around? during test.. some of the infantry just went off the roof..

@cfrag @Exorcet

Edited March 21 by hannibal

[cfrag]

1 minute ago, hannibal said:

btw, is there a way to make troops not to react and move around?

yes and no. In the advanced waypoint options for groups, you may want to experiment.

Try the 'disperse under fire'. Always remember that DCS AI was seemingly designed to frustrate mission designers, so don't get your hopes up too far.

[Exorcet]

The disperse under fire is a very important option for ground units, I'd recommend considering how to set it for every ground group placed on the map. Luckily you don't have to check and uncheck it every time you place a group. I like to place a few groups down when building a mission, set their settings, and then copy and paste them as needed to save some time. DML's spawning tools can probably do something similar.