Kirk66 Posted April 2, 2024 Posted April 2, 2024 Really? Just because something was heading West didn't mean it was automatically a hostile - it could be a returning friendly. ID was actually going to be even more of a problem due to the larger number of aircraft involved. 6
Karon Posted April 3, 2024 Posted April 3, 2024 That's why it is a bummer that the classification in DCS does not matter at all: it is either Friendly or Hostile. Intercepts and ID should be quite an important component of air-to-air, but they are missing entirely. 6 "Cogito, ergo RIO" Virtual Backseaters Volume I: F-14 Radar Intercept Officer - Fifth Public Draft Virtual Backseaters Volume II: F-4E Weapon Systems Officer - Internal Draft WIP Phantom Articles: Air-to-Air and APQ-120 | F-4E Must-know manoevure: SYNC-Z-TURN
Kirk66 Posted April 7, 2024 Posted April 7, 2024 That could be solved by randomizing "friendly" IFF responses so you HAVE to VID bogeys. 2
Tiger-II Posted April 8, 2024 Posted April 8, 2024 On 4/7/2024 at 2:37 AM, Kirk66 said: That could be solved by randomizing "friendly" IFF responses so you HAVE to VID bogeys. Straying into the "you can't post that" category, there are 3 types of IFF return: friend, foe, and no response. It's the no-return and foe that needs VID because a foe can be a friend with wrong setup, and no return can happen through equipment failure/battle damage. 1 Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port "When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover. The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts. "An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."
Dragon1-1 Posted April 8, 2024 Posted April 8, 2024 Excluding systems like Combat Tree, you don't get a distinct "foe" response, just no response whatsoever. The problem with IFF is that when it responds, it sends out a signal, which can be triangulated back to the source. So, Mode 4 gives no response to an incorrect interrogation. Other modes are for finding a specific aircraft (Mode 2) or a specific mission (Mode 1), and they simply respond "match/no match". Combined with a list of codes for all assets operating in an area, this can potentially factor into a decision to engage (although I wouldn't rely on it), but those two modes would be turned off in Indian Country, as anyone interrogating those modes would get a response. So, if the bandit haven't detected you on radar, but ran an IFF sweep and saw a strange "no match" readout where there shouldn't be anything, he'd know to expect to find something in that direction. Combat Tree did more or less exactly that: interrogate the MiGs' transponders to find out where they were. This system could be said to have a true "foe" IFF response. With later systems, an incorrect Mode 4 response would be highly unusual, since it would suggest the aircraft did have proper codes (since it accepted the interrogation), but somehow managed to mangle the reply. 2
Tiger-II Posted April 9, 2024 Posted April 9, 2024 (edited) Yes...as I understand it, "foe" is a reply that isn't "friend". As you say, the system will no-reply for a bad interrogation depending on mode. IOW, "friend" is the ONLY reply you can be sure of. Anything else needs checking out. Edited April 9, 2024 by Tiger-II 1 Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port "When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover. The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts. "An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."
mattag08 Posted April 9, 2024 Posted April 9, 2024 (edited) On 4/8/2024 at 12:41 AM, Tiger-II said: Straying into the "you can't post that" category, there are 3 types of IFF return: friend, foe, and no response. It's the no-return and foe that needs VID because a foe can be a friend with wrong setup, and no return can happen through equipment failure/battle damage. "Foe" responses don't really happen anymore from what I understand. That's only possible if one side has cracked the other side's transponder/DL tech and has developed systems for that. Almost all IFF is friend or nothing. The real reason for VID is because you don't know if "nothing" is a passenger airliner or an enemy bomber barring some other form of ELINT or SIGINT (or NCTR). In my previous group we started to place 1 or 2 civilian or neutral faction aircraft near or in the AO so that you couldn't know if a negative return was enemy or not. Sometimes I'd even make the neutral faction aircraft actually hostiles that would attack the players. That meant you couldn't trust the IFF to be 100% accurate and had to actually make decisions based on all available information. It took a few missions before people learned what that meant (2 or 3 airliners definitely went down in the Mediterranean ). Edited April 10, 2024 by mattag08 7 Flying the DCS: F-14B from Heatblur Simulations with Carrier Strike Group 2 and the VF-154 Black Knights! I also own: Ka-50 2, A-10C, P-51D, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F-86F, CA, Mig-15bis, Mig-21bis, F/A-18C, L-39, F-5E, AV-8B, AJS-37, F-16C, Mig-19P, JF-17, C-101, and CEII
Slant Posted April 10, 2024 Posted April 10, 2024 17 hours ago, mattag08 said: It took a few missions before people learned what that meant (2 or 3 airliners definitely went down in the Mediterranean ). I'll deny everything, my report doesn't reflect what you said! 1 http://www.csg-2.net/ | i7 7700k - NVIDIA 1080 - 32GB RAM | BKR!
Omega417 Posted April 11, 2024 Posted April 11, 2024 If you choose to set your IFF up incorrectly thats a you problem. I dont plan on getting in that phone booth with you when i still have sparrows.
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