[BUG] ME opens MIZ file in spite of not having active the User Mods that the Mission employs.

[Rudel_chw]

Hello,

 

I'm sure many will remember that there was a time when the Mission Editor refused to load any MIZ file that employed a User Mod that was not available at that moment. You had to exit DCS, enable the User Mod, re-start DCS, and only then the ME would open the MIZ file.

 

However, today I came across an issue where I could open an existing MIZ file that employed a User Mod. The Open dialog did show that the Mission requires that User Mod, but I erroneously assumed that I had it loaded on my DCS (when in fact it was not), and then the ME happily opened the mission and silently deleted all the objects that were provided by that User Mod.

 

If you don't notice (because the Mod objects are used on a different part of the map that the one currently being edited) and save the mission, then the Modded objects are lost and can't be recovered unless you have a backup copy of the MIZ file.

 

It looks like this, here is a sample mission, opened when I do have the User Mod loaded on DCS:

 

 

Now, if I don't have the Mod active, and try to open the same MIZ file again:

 

 

I can see that a user Mod is required, of course, but if I press OK anyway, then the ME happily opens the MIZ file, and DELETES all the modded objects with no warning:

 

 

ED, please, can you revert to the old behavior and have the ME just refuse to open the MIZ file, if the user mods are not available?

 

... and while you are at it, please do the same with the Static Templates: have the ME refuse to load any Static Templates unless all the user Mods it employs are available (this may require a change to the STM format, as currently it doesn't contain a list of required modules, like with the MIZ files).

I don't mind if I have to re-generate my Static Templates ir order to add this safeguard.

 

Thanks a lot,

 

Eduardo

 

[Elphaba]

Actually @Exorcet this new behaviour is more preferable because of the headache involved in installing mods you may no longer have, just to get at the bulk of the mission or triggers. 

The current implementation allows for the mission designer to 'fix' or 'replace' missing assets with others.

Perhaps there could be a 'tick box' in the settings that toggles this behaviour so those who prefer the new way can keep it and those that prefer the old way can keep that too? 

 

[Exorcet]

Having the ability to open any mission without needing to install additional files is very helpful.

Locking the mission file completely isn't a great solution to preventing accidental changes, instead there could be a popup box warning about the missing mods as well as affixing a suffix to the mission file name so that if it's saved it can't overwrite the original file unless the user intentionally uses "Save As" (though if people don't notice the file name change, it could cause some confusion). A checkbox option like @Elphaba mention could also work.

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, Exorcet said:

Having the ability to open any mission without needing to install additional files is very helpful.

 

Sorry to disagree, but loading a Mission while discarding a large portion of its units and statics, is not helpful at all ... you end up with a broken mission. I'd rather have the ME refusing to load an incomplete mission, and I proceed then to enable the needed user mods.

 

1 hour ago, Exorcet said:

Locking the mission file completely isn't a great solution to preventing accidental changes

 

Actually it was a good solution that worked for many years and ensured that the mission you loaded was complete and just like it was when last saved.

 

1 hour ago, Exorcet said:

instead there could be a popup box warning about the missing mods

 

Not a pop-up, but the open Mission dialog shows which user mods it needs.

 

At any given time I have enabled just the basic user mods, and I load extra Mods only when needed. That is why I may accidentally try to open a Mission without having its Mods enabled, but one quick run of the Mod manager fixes the issue ... what is problematic is how easily one can disrupt an existing Mission without even realizing it, and restoring the Mission is impossible if you don't have a backup.

 

On the other hand, if I get a Mission which uses a Mod that I don't have, I can always edit its Required Mods section, which is something that seldom is needed.

Edited March 27 by Rudel_chw

[Exorcet]

2 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Sorry to disagree, but loading a Mission while discarding a large portion of its units and statics, is not helpful at all ... you end up with a broken mission. I'd rather have the ME refusing to load an incomplete mission, and I proceed then to enable the needed user mods.

You may not necessarily want to preserve the mission (and even if you do, opening it causes no damage, only saving does), but instead want to get information out of it. In that case being preventing from opening the mission is a massive hindrance. Keeping the mission open also makes sharing a lot easier since the person you're sharing it with doesn't need to know what mods are required. You obviously can't share for the purpose of running the mission, but you might for troubleshooting.

3 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

Actually it was a good solution that worked for many years and ensured that the mission you loaded was complete and just like it was when last saved.

I don't disagree that it can protect the mission from damage, but it's still a bad way to do it since it also keeps you from accessing the mission at all.

3 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

Not a pop-up, but the open Mission dialog shows which user mods it needs.

 

At any given time I have enabled just the basic user mods, and I load extra Mods only when needed. That is why I may accidentally try to open a Mission without having the Mod enable, but one quick run of the Mod manager fixes the issue ... what is problematic is how easily one can disrupt an existing Mission without even realizing it, and restoring the Mission is impossible if you don't have a backup.

 

On the other hand, if I get a Mission which uses a Mod that I don't have, I can always edit its Required Mods section, which is something that seldom is needed.

Yes it would be frustrating to accidentally save over a mission, but preventing that doesn't require locking the mission. There should be protection of some kind, but I'd rather it not be totally preventing the mission from being open as that just causes additional problems/work.

If the functionality is reverted, there should be a checkbox to disable the file locking at the very least. I like having the name changed to prevent accidental saving if the mission cannot be fully loaded, there just needs to be a way to make that clearly visible to the user. Maybe forcing the save button to show a dialogue that explains the issue with the mission.

[Rudel_chw]

43 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

You may not necessarily want to preserve the mission (and even if you do, opening it causes no damage, only saving does), but instead want to get information out of it.

 

Hi, seems to me that you are focusing on the Use case of trying to edit, or get info, from a mission that you got from someone else; while I'm focused on the Use case of a Mission developer, who is sometimes working on a new mission, while other times is maintaining an old mission of his. On my Use case, it is unacceptable that a tool like the Mission Editor can remove objects without being allowed expressly by the user.

 

43 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

In that case being preventing from opening the mission is a massive hindrance.

 

You mean on the case where you don't have the user Mod that the mission uses, on that rare case (at least rare for me, as I mostly edit my own missions and employ user mods from my Mods library) you can always edit the Mission and remove the required module sentence, like this:

 

 

Honestly, not a big deal, takes less than a minute.

 

43 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

Keeping the mission open also makes sharing a lot easier since the person you're sharing it with doesn't need to know what mods are required.

 

Actually, he does need to know, if the mission is going to be used as designed.

 

43 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

I don't disagree that it can protect the mission from damage, but it's still a bad way to do it since it also keeps you from accessing the mission at all.

 

It only keeps you from access when trying to employ a Mission without having the user mods, which is not the most usual case, where you do have the user mods. Even if you don't have access to the User Mod anymore, editing the "required modules" list easily solves it.

 

43 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

Yes it would be frustrating to accidentally save over a mission

 

It is, particularly if you don't have a backup copy ... I was fortunate to have all  my missions on a cloud drive with versioning, so I could recover from my mistake.

 

43 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

, but preventing that doesn't require locking the mission. There should be protection of some kind, but I'd rather it not be totally preventing the mission from being open as that just causes additional problems/work.

 

I truly believe that maintaining a Mission is a much more frequent duty than trying to edit a mission for which you don't have the Mods it needs, and in that less frequent case there is the way of opening like I showed.

Well, hopefully someone at ED will take a look and fix this, because as it is now I will have to be extra careful each time I open a MIZ, checking its list of required user Mods and then checking that I do have those enabled ... doing this every time I open a mission is honestly a bit frustrating.

Best regards,

 

Eduardo

 

[352ndDeacon]

If the ME opens a mission for which the needed mods are not installed can you exit the mission and not save it as a way to preserve the original mission which did have the needed mods?  I understand that you save and then exit but does it give you the choice of exiting without saving?

[Rudel_chw]

9 minutes ago, 352ndDeacon said:

If the ME opens a mission for which the needed mods are not installed can you exit the mission and not save it as a way to preserve the original mission which did have the needed mods?  I understand that you save and then exit but does it give you the choice of exiting without saving?

yes, if you do realize that the MIZ loaded without some objects, you can then exit without saving …. But what happens if you don’t realize that those objects were dropped from the MIZ? .. you end up with a crippled mission that can be saved without noticing that it now is incomplete. 
 

for the time being, until ED decides to correct this ME behavior, I will be forced to always be extra careful when loading a mission that uses modded objects, always checking that the Mods are in effect loaded onto my DCS.

[352ndDeacon]

Does it notify you before it loads that there are missing mod?  If so, then getting out without saving seems to be the only was to preserve the original mission. Also real real pain to have to exit the sim, activate the mod, start back up again and the open the ME and open the mission. 

[Rudel_chw]

56 minutes ago, 352ndDeacon said:

Does it notify you before it loads that there are missing mod?  

 

Not exactly, it does tell you WHICH user mods it employs:

 

 

but it doesn't tell you if those Mods are available on your DCS. If you are not aware if a Mod is enabled, loading the MIZ results in a mission that loses an undeterminate quantity of units and/or statics.

 

56 minutes ago, 352ndDeacon said:

Also real real pain to have to exit the sim, activate the mod, start back up again and the open the ME and open the mission. 

 

Not as painful as recovering a broken Mission from a backup, which may in fact be impossible if you don't have a recent backup.