Problem with Laser guided bombs

[Aoi Kaze]

Hi all. Sometimes (frequently but not always) when I hit a target with my GBUs, when changing to the next one, I change the number on my TGP, dessignate the new target, follow plane's instructions, release the weapon, laser its way down and... the bomb never arrives (obviously hits someplace else out of my TGP). It's not a problem of the releasing process, distance, lasering... I know that for sure. I think (though I'm not sure) it goes to the older location, even when the TGP is looking at the right place, which I find quite absurd. So in order to be sure, I press Auto acq after short, to return the tgp to the cue, I mark some other waypoint at the tgp and go back to the correct one, just to "restart" the targeting process... I even change the steerpoint in my plane to the desired one, even when I know that's not necessary... and yet, it usually fails the second target (never the first). It's funny because 1st and second target they're close enough so the bomb actually should go to the second even if it was marking somehow the first, because it got energy and I'm freaking marking her way with the laser... but it doesn't. I was looking for an answer in the manual, but couldn't find anything that I don't do. Does it ring a bell to any of you? I thank you for your time!

[rob10]

You'll get much better answers if you add a track so people can see what you're doing (or missing).

[SloppyDog]

4 hours ago, Aoi Kaze said:

Hi all. Sometimes (frequently but not always) when I hit a target with my GBUs, when changing to the next one, I change the number on my TGP, dessignate the new target, follow plane's instructions, release the weapon, laser its way down and... the bomb never arrives (obviously hits someplace else out of my TGP). It's not a problem of the releasing process, distance, lasering... I know that for sure. I think (though I'm not sure) it goes to the older location, even when the TGP is looking at the right place, which I find quite absurd. So in order to be sure, I press Auto acq after short, to return the tgp to the cue, I mark some other waypoint at the tgp and go back to the correct one, just to "restart" the targeting process... I even change the steerpoint in my plane to the desired one, even when I know that's not necessary... and yet, it usually fails the second target (never the first). It's funny because 1st and second target they're close enough so the bomb actually should go to the second even if it was marking somehow the first, because it got energy and I'm freaking marking her way with the laser... but it doesn't. I was looking for an answer in the manual, but couldn't find anything that I don't do. Does it ring a bell to any of you? I thank you for your time!

Well, what you reported is a bit confusing, but I'll try to help. 

By marking you mean designating? Because there are these two functions on the TGP, mark and designate. If you are using Mark, it is not designating a new targeting , but simply creating a new markpoint in the plane's memory. What you need to to is Designate. If you are doing this from the front seat, the command is TDC Press. Make sure that in the TPOD page, under PB7 it is written TGT, not MARK.

And the whole process should be as follows:

 

1) let's say your target is at waypoint 02. Then change the TPOD to look at waypoint 2 by pressing PB17.

2) Make TGP SOI, by pressing Castle switch more than one second in the direction of the desired MFD.

3) Move the crosshairs around up to the target

4) TDC press to designate.

5) As you said, follow the plane instructions and release the bomb.

6) For a second pass, if the second target is in the same region as the first target, it is a simple matter to move the crosshairs on the TGP to the new target and designate with TDC press.

7) The azimuth steering line in the HUD will move to the next location, then it is just a matter of follow the instructions and release the bomb. There is no need to undesignate or change

the waypoint. Once you pass the target, extend and come back, the TGPshould be looking at the last target. No need to return to cue, undesignate or change the steerpoint on the UFC.

"It's funny because 1st and second target they're close enough so the bomb actually should go to the second even if it was marking somehow the first,"

This line that you wrote makes me think that you are not moving the TGP up to the target, just releasing the bombs on cue, which is the selected waypoint on the TPOD.

If that's the case, you are releasing bombs on the cue, not on the designated target.

EDIT: 

I added a video showing the process. It is not a tutorial, just showing you the procedure. Pay attention to the TGP, don't mind the rest, since I'm using a GBU-54 GPS/Laser guided bomb. I also make a mistake on the first pass since I forgot to turn Master Arm on up to the last second and on the second pass I'm going nose down in an attempt to unmask the TPOD.

Pay attention on how I designate the first target,  drop the bomb and hit the target.

Then I turn around, extend and while extending I move the TGP to the next target.

After extending, I turn around once more and then designate the second target, drop the bomb and hit the target.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3 by SloppyDog
Video added

[Aoi Kaze]

7 hours ago, SloppyDog said:

Well, what you reported is a bit confusing, but I'll try to help. 

By marking you mean designating? Because there are these two functions on the TGP, mark and designate. If you are using Mark, it is not designating a new targeting , but simply creating a new markpoint in the plane's memory. What you need to to is Designate. If you are doing this from the front seat, the command is TDC Press. Make sure that in the TPOD page, under PB7 it is written TGT, not MARK.

And the whole process should be as follows:

 

1) let's say your target is at waypoint 02. Then change the TPOD to look at waypoint 2 by pressing PB17.

2) Make TGP SOI, by pressing Castle switch more than one second in the direction of the desired MFD.

3) Move the crosshairs around up to the target

4) TDC press to designate.

5) As you said, follow the plane instructions and release the bomb.

6) For a second pass, if the second target is in the same region as the first target, it is a simple matter to move the crosshairs on the TGP to the new target and designate with TDC press.

7) The azimuth steering line in the HUD will move to the next location, then it is just a matter of follow the instructions and release the bomb. There is no need to undesignate or change

the waypoint. Once you pass the target, extend and come back, the TGPshould be looking at the last target. No need to return to cue, undesignate or change the steerpoint on the UFC.

"It's funny because 1st and second target they're close enough so the bomb actually should go to the second even if it was marking somehow the first,"

This line that you wrote makes me think that you are not moving the TGP up to the target, just releasing the bombs on cue, which is the selected waypoint on the TPOD.

If that's the case, you are releasing bombs on the cue, not on the designated target.

EDIT: 

I added a video showing the process. It is not a tutorial, just showing you the procedure. Pay attention to the TGP, don't mind the rest, since I'm using a GBU-54 GPS/Laser guided bomb. I also make a mistake on the first pass since I forgot to turn Master Arm on up to the last second and on the second pass I'm going nose down in an attempt to unmask the TPOD.

Pay attention on how I designate the first target,  drop the bomb and hit the target.

Then I turn around, extend and while extending I move the TGP to the next target.

After extending, I turn around once more and then designate the second target, drop the bomb and hit the target.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, first of all, thanks for the detailed answer.

Yes, I probably didn't explain it well.
-Yes, by "marking" I meant "dessignating", poor choice of words.

-I know the process of launching gbu's. The problem seems to be in the dessignation when changing to a new waypoint.

-Both targets are in different waypoints although very close to each other, that's why I said it is funny since am dropping bombs at 20k, and even though the dessignation failed, since the laser is marking the right target, the bomb should have enough energy to get to the right spot, but it doesn't, and I don't know why.

- I don't think there's an step on the list you wrote that I don't do. I tried and create a track for you, just jumping into the bombing part. I've been trying re-dessignating the target, changing waypoints to be sure the tgp is pointing at the right place... nothing.

So here it is, lemme know what you think, please.

 

Thank you, pals.

bomb_missed.trk

[SloppyDog]

3 hours ago, Aoi Kaze said:

Well, first of all, thanks for the detailed answer.

Yes, I probably didn't explain it well.
-Yes, by "marking" I meant "dessignating", poor choice of words.

-I know the process of launching gbu's. The problem seems to be in the dessignation when changing to a new waypoint.

-Both targets are in different waypoints although very close to each other, that's why I said it is funny since am dropping bombs at 20k, and even though the dessignation failed, since the laser is marking the right target, the bomb should have enough energy to get to the right spot, but it doesn't, and I don't know why.

- I don't think there's an step on the list you wrote that I don't do. I tried and create a track for you, just jumping into the bombing part. I've been trying re-dessignating the target, changing waypoints to be sure the tgp is pointing at the right place... nothing.

So here it is, lemme know what you think, please.

 

Thank you, pals.

bomb_missed.trk 12.17 MB · 1 download

Well, you did a good job designating, maneuvering and releasing te bombs. Really, no problem there.

The problem is that your second bomb is being intercepted by an SA-15. The first one was targeted as well, but passed. 

But the second is being targeted and hit, although it does not register on the log at the end. See the attached screenshot.

Watch your track. Once you release the second bomb, press F6 multiple times until you get to your bomb (GBU-10). Increase the gamma setting so you can see. The bomb explodes in mid-air. It is a sign of an interception.   

P.S.: What mission is this? Is it available for download?

 

[Aoi Kaze]

Man! It makes perfect sense what you're saying!!

It was driving me CRAZY!!

Never thought about looking at the log. I was just sure that the bomb was going somewhere else.

About the mission, I'm finishing the audios, kneeboards and so, it will be avaliable for downloading in a couple of days, i'll tag you here so you know.
I really apreciate this. Thank you!

Edited April 3 by Aoi Kaze

[SloppyDog]

25 minutes ago, Aoi Kaze said:

Man! It makes perfect sense what you're saying!!

It was driving me CRAZY!!

Never thought about looking at the log. I was just sure that the bomb was going somewhere else.

About the mission, I'm finishing the audios, kneeboards and so, it will be avaliable for downloading in a couple of days, i'll tag you here so you know.
I really apreciate this. Thank you!

 

Oh, I'd appreciate that. 

It seems a very well made mission, lots of details. 

To solve this issue you could either take out the "Engage Air Weapons" from this particular SA-15, or make the player do a low level loft profile.

I don't know if you know Notso's channel but it is worth to check it out. He is a Razbam SME and an active (I think he still is) F-15 WSO.

Take a look at this video of him teaching how to do a low level loft profile. It is very interesting. 

 

 

[Aoi Kaze]

Yes, I know Notso, he is awesome (although still a little too advanced for me yet). I'll watch the video with time. It seems he's attacking some targets in a dock, and since you told me about the mission, I uploaded another like 10 days ago about a strike in a harbour. Maybe you feel like playing it. It's this one:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3336381/

About the SA-15 it was definitely a target to destroy, and it seems gbu 12s are too small for it to intercept, so I'll change the order, attacking it first and later the building. The height of 20k was precisely to be out of its range and a SA-19 nearby.

Anyways, thanks again and I hope you'll enjoy the mission if you decide to give it a go!

[BuLLeT.ZA]

I see you found your issue being a pesky SA-15, but thought I'd mention this as well for anyone else having issues with LGBs.

There are known issues with the bomb releases. From Notso on the Razbam Discord:

• Quote

   

  • PW2 (GBU-10/12) release calculations are incorrect, especially in LOFT mode.  Bombs are being released to late/too close and causing them to land long if unguided.  Level and Toss attacks usually put them in the laser basket to guide, but LOFT is unusable for PW2 LGBs as it puts the bomb well long of the laser basket and the bomb never sees the laser spot to guide.
  • JDAMs released from the AFT station hit WAAAY later than weapons dropped from other stations, sometimes up to 15-30 sec later when released only seconds apart.

   

[Aoi Kaze]

On 4/3/2024 at 6:43 PM, SloppyDog said:

Oh, I'd appreciate that. 

It seems a very well made mission, lots of details. 

To solve this issue you could either take out the "Engage Air Weapons" from this particular SA-15, or make the player do a low level loft profile.

I don't know if you know Notso's channel but it is worth to check it out. He is a Razbam SME and an active (I think he still is) F-15 WSO.

Take a look at this video of him teaching how to do a low level loft profile. It is very interesting. 

 

 

Hello again, SloppyDog, they finally put the mission you saw in active. Here you can find it:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3336738/

I hope you'll like it. It was a laborious one. Cheers!