Upgrade recommendations

[Aapje]

9 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

You have a MSI X470 Gaming Pro Carbon.  It looks like the BIOS is current with that required to run a 5800X3D CPU.  So that's pretty much a 'drop in' upgrade - but it absolutely depends on whether you're comfortable doing that sort of thing.  I do strongly recommend seeking professional help if you're not certain.

The BIOS is from 2018 and does not support the 5800X3D. He needs the 7B78v2I BIOS or newer, according to the compatibility list. It can be found here:

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X470-GAMING-PRO-CARBON/support#bios

 

[kksnowbear]

23 hours ago, Aapje said:

The BIOS is from 2018 and does not support the 5800X3D. He needs the 7B78v2I BIOS or newer, according to the compatibility list. It can be found here:

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X470-GAMING-PRO-CARBON/support#bios

 

I stand corrected.  The 7B78 is a model number, which in haste was confused with a BIOS version.  Prior post edited.

Edited April 29, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Aapje]

@Rayzer

Did you build the PC yourself or was it done for you?

This is an example of what you would have to do, although you'd have to remove the existing cooler and CPU first, which is pretty much doing the procedure in reverse first:

 

Also, since you would reuse the existing cooler, you'd have to buy and apply a bit of thermal paste as well. That's pretty easy, you buy a tube and squirt some on the CPU, before installing the cooler.

You can probably just leave the motherboard in the case, so you don't have to remove any of the cables, other than perhaps to temporarily remove the CPU fan cable (you'll put it back in the same connector when reinstalling).

Upgrading the RAM and video card is also fairly easy if you follow a good guide. Of course, you wouldn't do all upgrades at once, but you do one at a time, then you test that it works correctly and then you do the other.

[Aapje]

@Rayzer

Although since you mentioned slow load times and given the age of your system, I'm wondering if you still have a HDD-drive.

Unfortunately, CPU-Z doesn't show that, nor does System Information. Perhaps you can download and run this: https://www.hwinfo.com/download/

You can click the green button in the middle under Portable and then select a download location. Then unzip and run the downloaded software. It will show three panels with info, if you screenshot those, we will have a ton of useful info.

[Buzzer1977]

21 hours ago, Rayzer said:

I'm running the latest 2.9 DCS World version, but I don't have a SSLA option listed in my VR settings in the sim. Now I think my problem is my graphics card, all this but WORSE operation in Microsoft Flight Simulator and X-Plane 12 sims.

Here are my computer specs.

AMD Ryzen 7 8 core 3.70GHz CPU, 16 GB RAM, 64 bit Windows 10 Pro OS, msi NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970, 3 monitors (but DCS only works on the center one), Thrustmaster Warthog Control with HOTAS throttle and A10, F18 and F16 handles, Thrustmaster rudder pedals, Thrustmaster Cougar MFD display panels (2), and both Meta Quest 3 VR and TrackIR 5 with new TrackClip Pro. (TrackIR works much better than the ball cap clip, but having double getting the view centered, it looks slightly to the right when my head is looking forward!)

I'm retired Fire Service, (Chief), and currently part of the Department of Defense, US Army, Joint Service Honors Command performing military honors for deceased veterans.

Would installing a newer higher power graphics card work with my CPU and hardware setup to alive my frustrations with latency using the VR headset? Without VR I'm able to set graphics to high levels and have no latency issues, with VR I get extremely poor performance and the issue of sitting "on top the canopy"!

 

1.) Press "5" on the numpad to solve your 'above the canopy' issue. This will realign your position to default.
2.) The CPU is okay.
3.) More RAM. 64GB should be minimum for DCS
4.) Make sure you have a decent SSD or better two. One for the OS and one for DCS.
5.) A decade old 970 ain't fun. Especially not in VR.

P.s. Thank you for your service. 

[Maddaawg]

MSINFO32 provides all the information needed except memory timings and is already installed in Windows. I'm not aware of Windows system providing the BIOS version, but if it does please show me that so I have that info.

I also use CPU-Z and install that along with CPUID HWMonitor and GPU-Z. I don't believe MSINFO32 has memory timings, but drive type is under Components/Storage/Disks

To get CPU, Bios, Memory and Drive types without installing anything, from a command prompt (search bar type CMD), then enter MSINFO32

[kksnowbear]

Windows System Info shows BIOS version.  Next to last line in image above.

Also, unlike what the prior post above says, System Info does show drive models (as shown below).  You can look up the model online easily and get all the specs you want.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, System Info cannot give you memory timing details - and yes, it matters.  I've seen plenty of times the memory was configured improperly and not running as it should, or mixed modules (never a good idea) or a host of other issues.  CPU-Z does provide this.

Edited April 29, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Maddaawg]

1 hour ago, kksnowbear said:

Windows System Info shows BIOS version.  Next to last line in image above.

Also, unlike what the prior post above says, System Info does show drive models (as shown below).  You can look up the model online easily and get all the specs you want.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, System Info cannot give you memory timing details - and yes, it matters.  I've seen plenty of times the memory was configured improperly and not running as it should, or mixed modules (never a good idea) or a host of other issues.  CPU-Z does provide this.

 

I said it does provide the drive information and bios information using MSINFO32, its the Windows System applet Info that doesn't. I posted a picture of the applet. What you posted is MSINFO32 which is what I was referring too.

Part of the problem is naming conventions, getting to MSINFO32 requires either entering it as the search bar or command prompt. Right clicking start and selecting System is what I was referring to that does not provide BIOS information.

As I look at the previous posts I think when Aapje mentioned System Information, I took that as the Windows System Applet as shown in my screen grab. Someone new to PC's like the 2nd OP(hijacked thread) would not know about MSINFO32 aka System Information.

 

2 hours ago, Maddaawg said:

MSINFO32 provides all the information needed except memory timings and is already installed in Windows. I'm not aware of Windows system providing the BIOS version, but if it does please show me that so I have that info.

I also use CPU-Z and install that along with CPUID HWMonitor and GPU-Z. I don't believe MSINFO32 has memory timings, but drive type is under Components/Storage/Disks

To get CPU, Bios, Memory and Drive types without installing anything, from a command prompt (search bar type CMD), then enter MSINFO32

 

Edited April 29, 2024 by Maddaawg

[kksnowbear]

The post above I as referring to wasn't yours.  There was a post before your saying neither CPUZ nor System Info (not System>About) provided drive details, which is not accurate.

Sorry for any confusion.  But I think part of it is that you're referring to System>About as System Information, which it's not (see the title bar in the pic I posted earlier, that is System Information...which as you noted can be searched for but doesn't require knowing anything about MSINFO32).  FWIW I wouldn't refer to System > About as an applet, and I think the actual name is  "About your PC", as stupid as that is.

We can thank Microsoft for the hot mess that Windows has become.

I should add here that no amount of system info, applet or even utility will tell a typical user what the information actually means.  Anyone can run these apps/utils etc.  but most forum 'experts' don't really understand what the information is good for.  There are countless examples of that posted here all the time.

My advice is, and will remain, to seek the assistance of a qualified professional.

Edited April 29, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Aapje]

Yes, I was wrong on that. However, if he has multiple drives, it is harder for him to show us the type/size/etc of the drives with those other tools than with HWInfo, which shows it all on the starting screens in one view.

[kksnowbear]

Model numbers (from System Information) will almost always tell you all that by doing a little legwork online.

There's no shortage of information that's available.  The issue is knowing what the information is good for.

Edited April 29, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Aapje]

@kksnowbear

The issue is more that your screenshot shows only one drive, so if he has a classic setup of a SSD for Windows plus a HDD for gaming, or has another config with multiple drives, it would be hard to get him to make screenshots that show the info for all drives.

He would have to know what he is looking at or would need extra instructions.

My suggestion would require downloading a standalone exe, running it and making a screenshot. Easy and relatively foolproof.

Edited April 29, 2024 by Aapje

[kksnowbear]

Again, all of this is easily resolved by working with someone who is experienced and trained.  And no, it doesn't necessarily have to cost anything, either.

(And I might add that, if they're interested in learning about it, that opportunity usually exists and is well worth the effort).  I'm pretty sure the numerous DCS players I've already done this with would provide very positive references.

However, I don't want to get too far into it, because next thing you know I'm being accused of spamming the forum to try and sell something - which is total b*llsh*t, but there it is.

Edited April 29, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Aapje]

He may have given up on us anyway.

[Buzzer1977]

4 hours ago, Aapje said:

He may have given up on us anyway.

Well, i didn't. 

But i still don't know which way to go.

7900xtx, 4090 or wait for the next gen.

That's the question.

[Aapje]

@Buzzer1977

I don't get your list of choices since the 7900 XTX is closer to a 4080 Super than a 4090. You probably feel the desire to stay with the top end because you have a 3090 now, but it makes much more sense to look at what actual performance (improvement) you get, as well as performance per dollar.

For high end VR simming I would pay the premium for Nvidia, unless it is a big gap. Nvidia is better at driver support for VR and it's much easier to find advice, support and such in the simming community with Nvidia.

Since you have a 3090, I would certainly wait for next gen, especially since there are pretty solid rumors that the next gen from AMD will improve on the fairly mediocre current gen quite a bit and will be a strong value play, where you will get a bit over 7900 XT performance for probably around $550, rather than the current $900. Even though AMD won't come out with a truly high end product, this should still put big price pressure on Nvidia's mid-range and to make their line-up work, they probably need to give us a significant bump for the same price across the line-up, except for the 5090, which I expect will be very expensive, hard to get, etc.

Nvidia clearly learned this generation that the x090 buyers will pay a lot, but they have to provide proper value to the x080 buyers and below. Hence the price drop for the 4080 Super, while the 4090 remains very expensive.

So unless you are willing to pretty much get ripped off to get the best of the best at the time with the 5090, I would loosely plan to get a 5080, although we'll only know the actual price, performance, value, etc when it is announced and reviewed.

But of course that is just my reasoning and you have to make up your own mind.

Edited April 30, 2024 by Aapje

[Buzzer1977]

5 hours ago, Aapje said:

@Buzzer1977

I don't get your list of choices since the 7900 XTX is closer to a 4080 Super than a 4090. You probably feel the desire to stay with the top end because you have a 3090 now, but it makes much more sense to look at what actual performance (improvement) you get, as well as performance per dollar.

 

 

My point is: I'm currently using the 24GB of VRAM when i play, stepping down and fetching textures from main memory will notably lower performance. Therfor i look at the top models only. And of course i want the system to perform and to get the best bang for the buck, but there is no performance data for DCS in VR for the AMD stuff. It's known that the 7000 series was even slower then it's 6000series predecessor in VR. Is this now fixed for DCS with new drivers or is this a system inherent problem of the 7000 series chiplet and/or RAM cache design? That's why i'm asking.

5 hours ago, Aapje said:

@Buzzer1977

Since you have a 3090, I would certainly wait for next gen, especially since there are pretty solid rumors that the next gen from AMD will improve on the fairly mediocre current gen quite a bit and will be a strong value play, where you will get a bit over 7900 XT performance for probably around $550, rather than the current $900. Even though AMD won't come out with a truly high end product, this should still put big price pressure on Nvidia's mid-range and to make their line-up work, they probably need to give us a significant bump for the same price across the line-up, except for the 5090, which I expect will be very expensive, hard to get, etc.

Yes, i do have a 3090, but my son doesn't. And that's the reason why i need a new graphics card in the first place. With his current GTX960 he will only see a freeze frame after the other ...

6 hours ago, Aapje said:

@Buzzer1977

So unless you are willing to pretty much get ripped off to get the best of the best at the time with the 5090, I would loosely plan to get a 5080, although we'll only know the actual price, performance, value, etc when it is announced and reviewed.

So it's basically option 3)

[Aapje]

@Buzzer1977

AMD seems to have a driver team that is too small, so what we've seen for a long time now is that Nvidia is close to max performance right away, while AMD gets gradually better as the card gets older. It typically takes at least half a year.

And it's not just performance, but they also don't optimize VR until later on, so it tends to be really bad at first, but later in the life cycle people tend to be quite happy with the VR performance. More recent experiences on this forum seem to suggest that AMD works fine now: 

 

You are right that DCS is a VRAM hog of course, so it makes sense to buy a 7900 XTX now, since there won't be a new 24 GB card from AMD, nor a 24 GB 5080.

Another option can be to wait for the 5090 release and then buy a second-hand 4090, since a lot of the money-no-object people will surely upgrade from the 4090 to the 5090. You may even be able to get a good deal from another DCS player on this forum.

Of course, that second option means waiting and there is no guarantee that those 2nd hand cards will have good prices, especially if the AI people keep snapping them up.

[winghunter]

I have a new CPU and 4090, and I'm CPU bound all the time. So a 4090 isn't strictly necessary at this time, a 4080 or even 4070 may do the job.