Stabilator angle issue

[Gamja Field]

I noticed this while watching some real life footage.

When the aircraft is airborne and in level flight, the stabilator's angle seems to be different compared to the real one.
(While the aircraft is on the ground, it perfectly matches the real life counterpart.)

As you can see from the image below, in DCS the angle of the stabilator is stuck at 3 degrees nose down while airborne (to achieve stable level flight), but the real aircraft's stabilator is something close to the neutral trim position. If I try to match the angle of the real one, the aircraft will pitch up aggressively.

 

Here's the real life footage for reference. (specifically 5:40 mark)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2024 by Gamja Field

[Victory205]

You would need to match the CG, configuration and indicated air speed of the aircraft in your videos for a valid comparison.

[Gamja Field]

8 hours ago, Victory205 said:

You would need to match the CG, configuration and indicated air speed of the aircraft in your videos for a valid comparison.

Good point.

However, in DCS I find it doesn't matter because regardless of the configuration and speed, to make the aircraft in trim all I had to do was to apply 3 degrees nose down trim.
I didn't even need to adjust it at all unless in a low-speed high AoA situation like landing. (AFAIK it required constant pitch trim adjustment due to the engine configuration)

I assume in real life, due to the bellow system it will push the stab back to near the neutral position unlike ours which is constantly in a negative angle.

Again, DCS for comparison. This is the "in trim" position of the stab when it's in 3 clicks nose down trim. I can fly level in this configuration regardless of the payload/fuel/speed.

Aircraft behavior if I try the match the "in trim" stab position of the real life reference.

 

 

[Super Grover]

There is no direct relation between trim 3 units nose down and the stabilator position. It's always a function of speed, air density, G-load, weight and, of course, pilot input. I'd suspect that most of the formation photos are taken at moderate speeds, resulting in a slightly leading edge down stabilator position.

[Tiger-II]

Is it me, or are people failing to fully read and comprehend what people have written?

1) The stab appears to be wrong for any phase of flight

2) The CoG/weight/speed does NOT change the trim condition of the aircraft in the sim.

Did I miss anything?

[Gamja Field]

5 hours ago, Super Grover said:

There is no direct relation between trim 3 units nose down and the stabilator position. It's always a function of speed, air density, G-load, weight and, of course, pilot input. I'd suspect that most of the formation photos are taken at moderate speeds, resulting in a slightly leading edge down stabilator position.

Thanks for the reply Grover.

But I don't think it's working as intended at the moment. I see no changes in the stabilator angle at any speed.

Even if it's the pilot input, it's impossible to replicate that in DCS because it will just simply put the aircraft in a stall due to high AoA.

Or am I missing something?... 

 

2 hours ago, Tiger-II said:

Is it me, or are people failing to fully read and comprehend what people have written?

1) The stab appears to be wrong for any phase of flight

2) The CoG/weight/speed does NOT change the trim condition of the aircraft in the sim.

Did I miss anything?

About 2), sorry if I confused you. And yes it does affect the trim condition. I should have said stab position not the trim condition. 

Edited May 24, 2024 by Gamja Field

[Gamja Field]

My final submission. It's obvious that I can't provide a reference that perfectly matches every aspects... but anyways...

These are some pictures of Phantom A/A refueling with KC-135. We can assume that the speed of the aircraft was around 230~250knots.

DCS for comparison. Again, no amount of payload/fuel and speed will make the position of the stabilator to match the real life counterpart.

I'll gladly move on if devs and others think this is "correct-as-is", because this is purely cosmetic and it can't be seen when you're in the cockpit.

The module is otherwise fantastic. 

Edited May 25, 2024 by Gamja Field

[Schwokol]

Yeah there definitely seems to be a discrepancy. Honestly, if this issue and the engine modeling get ironed out, the module will be pretty much perfect.

[Cobra847]

Thanks for the report - will definitely take a look

Edited May 26, 2024 by Cobra847

[Cobra847]

Can very likely confirm this is a bug; fix in progress. Thanks again for reporting!

Edited May 26, 2024 by Cobra847

[Gamja Field]

On 5/26/2024 at 8:21 PM, Cobra847 said:

Can very likely confirm this is a bug; fix in progress. Thanks again for reporting!

 

Post patch feedback.

Now the player aircraft looks perfect . But it doesn't seem to affect AI aircraft.

 

[Cobra847]

6 hours ago, Gamja Field said:

Post patch feedback.

Now the player aircraft looks perfect . But it doesn't seem to affect AI aircraft.

 

It definitely is different for both (as it was an art change) - but its possible the AI displaces the horizontal stab a bit too much at the moment