cannot reproduce AI F-4E-45-MC refuses to fire/drop most guided air-to-ground weapons

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

These are at least working internally, have you rechecked recently? Thanks.

I have indeed rechecked recently, all the issues in that particular post have now been resolved and have been for several months.

The only issue now present (at least from my testing) is the AGM-45 against the SON-9 and AN/MPQ-64F1 - the AI makes no attempt whatsoever to even engage either radar. Please see this post for tracks, further up this thread. Note that this problem is not that the Shrikes don't track - the problem is the AI refuses to engage in the first place.

Heatblur have implemented a workaround which appears to have resolved the issue with the GBU-8 not dropping without Pave Spike, so that can be considered resolved.

Edited October 31, 2024 by Northstar98

[f-18hornet]

Hi @Northstar98, here is a mission where SEAD task for AI is not removed and AIs attack SON-9. The issues was if mission designer want AI attack rotating radar when it track AI - mission designer should not remove all target filters, but allow AI to search and select targets by standart enroute task SEAD - initial track removes all positive target filters (by removing SEAD enroute task) and try to make AI one-time task - attack radar that is impossible. AI_F-4E_AGM-45A_Mk50_SON-9_FireWhenTracked.miz

null

[Northstar98]

6 hours ago, f-18hornet said:

Hi @Northstar98, here is a mission where SEAD task for AI is not removed and AIs attack SON-9. The issues was if mission designer want AI attack rotating radar when it track AI - mission designer should not remove all target filters, but allow AI to search and select targets by standart enroute task SEAD - initial track removes all positive target filters (by removing SEAD enroute task) and try to make AI one-time task - attack radar that is impossible. AI_F-4E_AGM-45A_Mk50_SON-9_FireWhenTracked.miz

null

However, that behaviour changed in subsequent updates - allowing attack group/unit as well as search then engage to work (this is useful as, unlike the SEAD task, it gives you greater control - such as weapon quantity settings as well as control over what specific unit/group the AI should attack).

I was able to reproduce the SEAD task working and the same for the Search Then Engage tasks. So I guess this report can now be treated as fully resolved.

What I don't understand is why doesn't the AI attempt to make an engagement regardless? Especially when, if it does so, the SON-9 will start tracking and permit continuous Shrike guidance. But even with the SON-9 remaining in search (or even off the air) firing an ARM may still be desireable in order to achieve suppression (though obviously direct or LABS. By firing a weapon (even blind - and the Shrike certainly lets you launch it blind) operators may be compelled to keep their radar off the air (or in search). And in that case - why shouldn't the attack group/unit task work?

 

On another note, I noticed that the AI will now perform loft attacks when the Shrike guidance section mode is set to loft, I'm not sure when that changed but I'm very grateful for it! @gillouf1 If you try the AI against the S-125, but set the Shrike guidance sections to loft instead of direct, you should find that they'll be more effective at destroying the P-19 as they will engage on the outer limits of the S-125's range.

Edited November 14, 2024 by Northstar98
Added addendum about the AI now performing loft attacks

[KosmicRavioli]

I'm trying to to do this, but despite everything, the only options that get the AI F-4 to attack are the SEAD and "search then engage in zone" tasks, but even then it only does so with the gun/strafe.

I can't get it to attack with "attack group/unit" or any other "search then engage..." tasks.

I've got a basic SA-3 setup and Shrikes setup with Mk 36.

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, KosmicRavioli said:

I'm trying to to do this, but despite everything, the only options that get the AI F-4 to attack are the SEAD and "search then engage in zone" tasks, but even then it only does so with the gun/strafe.

I can't get it to attack with "attack group/unit" or any other "search then engage..." tasks.

I've got a basic SA-3 setup and Shrikes setup with Mk 36.

To stop them from strafing the target, make sure you set the weapon type to ARM (if available).

I have a working mission attached below (AGM-45A_S-125M_test.miz) - this does indeed work. Here I have 4 aircraft, WEASEL21 and 23 equipped with Mk 36 guidance sections and 22 and 24 with Mk 37. Here all aircraft engage the site (though the Mk 36s consistently miss the Low Blow).

Unfortunately AI behaviour is somewhat unexpected and inconsistent. I noticed that search then engage unit/group work against a Low Blow by itself (well + the Flat Face-B for acquisition) - see AGM-45A_SNR-125M_Mk36_SearchThenEngageG.trk (for group) and AGM-45A_SNR-125M_Mk36_SearchThenEngageU.trk (for unit). Add the launchers though and the same set up stops working, even with the AI set to not react and immortal.

It also looks like AI behaviour with attack group/unit has changed - unless the radar is in a state where it can be engaged with Shrike the instant the attack group/unit task is called, the AI will forget about it and not engage it.

AGM-45A_S-125M_test.miz AGM-45A_SNR-125M_Mk36_SearchThenEngageU.trk AGM-45A_SNR-125M_Mk36_SearchThenEngageG.trk

[KosmicRavioli]

14 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

To stop them from strafing the target, make sure you set the weapon type to ARM (if available).

I have a working mission attached below (AGM-45A_S-125M_test.miz) - this does indeed work. Here I have 4 aircraft, WEASEL21 and 23 equipped with Mk 36 guidance sections and 22 and 24 with Mk 37. Here all aircraft engage the site (though the Mk 36s consistently miss the Low Blow).

Unfortunately AI behaviour is somewhat unexpected and inconsistent. I noticed that search then engage unit/group work against a Low Blow by itself (well + the Flat Face-B for acquisition) - see AGM-45A_SNR-125M_Mk36_SearchThenEngageG.trk (for group) and AGM-45A_SNR-125M_Mk36_SearchThenEngageU.trk (for unit). Add the launchers though and the same set up stops working, even with the AI set to not react and immortal.

It also looks like AI behaviour with attack group/unit has changed - unless the radar is in a state where it can be engaged with Shrike the instant the attack group/unit task is called, the AI will forget about it and not engage it.

AGM-45A_S-125M_test.miz 13.26 kB · 1 download AGM-45A_SNR-125M_Mk36_SearchThenEngageU.trk 48.04 kB · 1 download AGM-45A_SNR-125M_Mk36_SearchThenEngageG.trk 53.68 kB · 1 download

Well the only thing so far that has made the AI attack the radar installation is the SEAD mission, which I can't set the weapon type or release amount.

That said, for some reason, adding a wingman to the AI (it was singular all this time) did finally result in one of them sending a singular Shrike at the target.

Which is some sort of success at least.

By the way, when I tried f-18 hornet's mission up there, it told me my mission editor is an older version than what that mission was made for.

I didn't know it was possible to update the mission editor independently from the base game?

Or is it because he is using a yet unreleased patched version of the game?

[SOLIDKREATE]

My problem is that they turn away like cowards and drop all of their stuff, rack and all. Then they turn right around and afterburn out of the combat zone. Even though I have 'Restrict Jettison' active.

[Northstar98]

45 minutes ago, SOLIDKREATE said:

My problem is that they turn away like cowards and drop all of their stuff, rack and all. Then they turn right around and afterburn out of the combat zone. Even though I have 'Restrict Jettison' active.

Check reaction to threat settings (make sure they’re not set to allow abort, which is the default) and make sure override attack avoidance is set.

[SOLIDKREATE]

44 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Check reaction to threat settings (make sure they’re not set to allow abort, which is the default) and make sure override attack avoidance is set.

 

TY SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Now if I can just get them to attack SAM's.

 

 

=o(

Edited April 20 by SOLIDKREATE