Unable to aim for mission 1

[Sylosis]

Any help would be appreciated... I've tried 8 times to do the SA-2 bombing and I just can't manage. The damn cluster bombs are so imprecise I just can't get a hit. While I've seen in the forum that the CBU-87 require to aim short on purpose... I can't seem to "eyeball" it.

I'm trying CCIP because, well, if I can't aim with CCIP there is no way in hell I'm going to hit something in CCRP.

I kinda need to perfectly coordinate my popoff, and then how high I climb before rolling back towards target, then aim very approximately short of the target (by how much I have no clue) and if I drop my bombs too low, they simply won't work (I guess the canisters don't open, because dropped too low).

I have tried dropping the 2 bombs I have, hoping 1 would hit, but then you get a request for a second SAM after that... (that I guess I missed in the briefing?).

So yeah, the first mission is already really annoying me, probably because of my lack of skills, especially with the F-16. What would be your suggestions in order to finally completing it?

And also, is it really normal that CBUs are hitting so off compared to the CCIP reticle? That's really how they behave IRL?
 

[ChillNG]

1 hour ago, Sylosis said:

Any help would be appreciated... I've tried 8 times to do the SA-2 bombing and I just can't manage. The damn cluster bombs are so imprecise I just can't get a hit. While I've seen in the forum that the CBU-87 require to aim short on purpose... I can't seem to "eyeball" it.

I'm trying CCIP because, well, if I can't aim with CCIP there is no way in hell I'm going to hit something in CCRP.

I kinda need to perfectly coordinate my popoff, and then how high I climb before rolling back towards target, then aim very approximately short of the target (by how much I have no clue) and if I drop my bombs too low, they simply won't work (I guess the canisters don't open, because dropped too low).

I have tried dropping the 2 bombs I have, hoping 1 would hit, but then you get a request for a second SAM after that... (that I guess I missed in the briefing?).

So yeah, the first mission is already really annoying me, probably because of my lack of skills, especially with the F-16. What would be your suggestions in order to finally completing it?

And also, is it really normal that CBUs are hitting so off compared to the CCIP reticle? That's really how they behave IRL?
 

No idea on real life, but at the moment in DCS the CCIP indicates where the first hit of the cluster will be, the chain of munitions then extends forwards from that point.  Bogey Dope does a great example on this video at approx 34 mins, might help you get your eye in.

 

 

[Sylosis]

1 hour ago, ChillNG said:

No idea on real life, but at the moment in DCS the CCIP indicates where the first hit of the cluster will be, the chain of munitions then extends forwards from that point.  Bogey Dope does a great example on this video at approx 34 mins, might help you get your eye in.

 

 

Yeah I saw his video and aimed more or less like he did (or at least I thought I did) and still missed. And again, looking at the video,  it is still significant eyeballing.

I was looking at other much older F16 CBU videos and people were able to aim where there target actually is. It's as if something changed in the CBU behaviour, at least for the F16.

This here is an example. And even then, his aim is relatively "poor" (getting shot at, so he's not really taking his time), yet the clusters hit more or less where he was aiming, which was still good enough. 
 

While in the campaign's 1st mission, compared to this video I am sharing, I have to aim completely off (outside of the vehicle circle that is in the mission).

It really is as if the piper is not even pointing at the first canister impact, contrary to what you mention. 

[ChillNG]

20 hours ago, Sylosis said:

Yeah I saw his video and aimed more or less like he did (or at least I thought I did) and still missed. And again, looking at the video,  it is still significant eyeballing.

I was looking at other much older F16 CBU videos and people were able to aim where there target actually is. It's as if something changed in the CBU behaviour, at least for the F16.

This here is an example. And even then, his aim is relatively "poor" (getting shot at, so he's not really taking his time), yet the clusters hit more or less where he was aiming, which was still good enough. 
 

While in the campaign's 1st mission, compared to this video I am sharing, I have to aim completely off (outside of the vehicle circle that is in the mission).

It really is as if the piper is not even pointing at the first canister impact, contrary to what you mention. 

Might be related to this?  Check you BA setting, could be the new fuses need updating as well.

EDIT - just done a few checks, the default CBU fuse setting has a very low burst height, I will update ASAP, although it is still pretty accurate, just little spread on the bomblets.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2024 by ChillNG

[Sylosis]

3 hours ago, ChillNG said:

Might be related to this?  Check you BA setting, could be the new fuses need updating as well.

EDIT - just done a few checks, the default CBU fuse setting has a very low burst height, I will update ASAP, although it is still pretty accurate, just little spread on the bomblets.

 

 

 

The BA in the Viper seems to be set now to 4237 ft or something like that. Seems very high, since it's AGL altitude right? Other people complained about this, apparently ED is investigating, but you said you tested and it seemed accurate....so maybe it's just me. 

 

I'll try to send a track later and you can tell me what I do wrong. 

[Sylosis]

On 5/30/2024 at 2:17 PM, ChillNG said:

Might be related to this?  Check you BA setting, could be the new fuses need updating as well.

EDIT - just done a few checks, the default CBU fuse setting has a very low burst height, I will update ASAP, although it is still pretty accurate, just little spread on the bomblets.

 

 

 

All right so I have saved a video of what happens (using NVidia Recording and uploaded it in Youtube, instead of track, because I always have issues with my DCS Tracks). You can see I release my bombs way before my targets and they still miss.

I guess my dive is somewhat shallow... but in a situation like this (doing that pop-up attack on a SAM with CBU), I would think this is something that can happen (can you really always achieve a perfect dive angle when SAMs are near?)

The mission appears to be windy(based on the plane unstability at low level), and from what I understand, the computer can't compensate for wind on CBUs, so you have to eyeball it. As such I really wonder how efficient it is to hunt SAM with CBUs in those conditions. Missing your target like I do is maybe more likely than actually hitting your target?
 

 

Edited June 1, 2024 by Sylosis

[ChillNG]

1 hour ago, Sylosis said:

All right so I have saved a video of what happens (using NVidia Recording and uploaded it in Youtube, instead of track, because I always have issues with my DCS Tracks). You can see I release my bombs way before my targets and they still miss.

I guess my dive is somewhat shallow... but in a situation like this (doing that pop-up attack on a SAM with CBU), I would think this is something that can happen (can you really always achieve a perfect dive angle when SAMs are near?)

The mission appears to be windy(based on the plane unstability at low level), and from what I understand, the computer can't compensate for wind on CBUs, so you have to eyeball it. As such I really wonder how efficient it is to hunt SAM with CBUs in those conditions. Missing your target like I do is maybe more likely than actually hitting your target?
 

 

 

Your attack looked fine to me.  Don't think wind is a factor, it's not hindered anyone up to now and only around 8 knots.  Issue is definitely the new fuses introduced, see the pics below.  Old BA for CBU-87 was 1500 ft, the fuse now defaults BA to 300 ft.  I dropped a pair of 87s, releasing at the same point you did, one set for 300 ft (new default), other set for 1500 ft (old default).  See how one frag pattern goes long and one is on target.  I'm updating all CBU missions in the campaign to accommodate new fuse settings.

 

[Sylosis]

1 hour ago, ChillNG said:

Your attack looked fine to me.  Don't think wind is a factor, it's not hindered anyone up to now and only around 8 knots.  Issue is definitely the new fuses introduced, see the pics below.  Old BA for CBU-87 was 1500 ft, the fuse now defaults BA to 300 ft.  I dropped a pair of 87s, releasing at the same point you did, one set for 300 ft (new default), other set for 1500 ft (old default).  See how one frag pattern goes long and one is on target.  I'm updating all CBU missions in the campaign to accommodate new fuse settings.

 

Thanks for taking the time to test it. Comforting to see it's likely not me that is the issue. 

But then again, it means you still have to eyeball it and aim off on purpose. Can't believe it's considered a reliable SEAD method in RL (apparently it is used in RL, from what I read) 

[Сиваш]

Hello! I started to play the campaign, and also encountered the same problem. Bombs hit the target exactly, but at the same time do not destroy anything, I passed the mission three times, and always the same result. I had to cancel the attack via F10 so that the mission could continue.