I am considering Pimax Crystal Light but...

[maxTRX]

... last night I saw 2 vids on YT made by MRTV guy.  Was this a 'glitch' on Pimax website?   Anyone from Pimax cares to elaborate?

[Hartsblade]

I've been enjoying my Crystal Light for about 2 weeks.  MRTV can be informative, but I find him to be a bit "click-bait" oriented. 

 

[maxTRX]

1 hour ago, Hartsblade said:

I've been enjoying my Crystal Light for about 2 weeks.  MRTV can be informative, but I find him to be a bit "click-bait" oriented. 

 

Well, good to hear...  I'm still considering it after it showed back up... with 120hz refresh.  The website this morning looked better, a bit more 'involving' to browse through all options and the availability timeline but that's OK  

Edited June 13, 2024 by oldcrusty

[Calvin.Pimax]

What glitch ?

[Dangerzone]

8 hours ago, oldcrusty said:

Well, good to hear...  I'm still considering it after it showed back up... with 120hz refresh.  The website this morning looked better, a bit more 'involving' to browse through all options and the availability timeline but that's OK  

I think what the video is basically saying is don't trust Pimax until the product is actually available. Don't buy in advance (or buy another headset) expecting that advertised dates, prices, discounts, etc. will be honored until the product is actually available for shipping. 

So, if you were holding out for the Pimax Super - after viewing this video, I'd probably be thinking again with the attitude "the super isn't coming... until it's released" and ignoring all marketing, expected shipping dates, etc until it's actually truly available.  Maybe the same thing if you were considering buying the Pimax Crystal Light without local dimming. 

But, if you were planning on getting a Pimax Crystal Light with local dimming - I don't think there's anything in this video for you to be concerned about. They're shipping, some people have them already - you can get reviews and first hand experience/recommendations/reviews. 

Re the non-local dimming one - it does appear it's still on their website at https://pimax.com/products/pimax-crystal-light-no-local-dimming-version, so not sure what the video is referring to there, unless there was a temporary glitch? Even so - I wouldn't be counting on this to be shipped until it actually started shipping as the website says "Coming Soon", and "out of stock". 

Edited June 14, 2024 by Dangerzone

[Calvin.Pimax]

For more information about the non-local dimming version, please read: About the Non-Local Dimming Crystal Light.

[freehand]

Seem rather cheap for the light must say interesting. 

Edited June 14, 2024 by freehand

[maxTRX]

6 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

I think what the video is basically saying is don't trust Pimax until the product is actually available. Don't buy in advance (or buy another headset) expecting that advertised dates, prices, discounts, etc. will be honored until the product is actually available for shipping. 

So, if you were holding out for the Pimax Super - after viewing this video, I'd probably be thinking again with the attitude "the super isn't coming... until it's released" and ignoring all marketing, expected shipping dates, etc until it's actually truly available.  Maybe the same thing if you were considering buying the Pimax Crystal Light without local dimming. 

But, if you were planning on getting a Pimax Crystal Light with local dimming - I don't think there's anything in this video for you to be concerned about. They're shipping, some people have them already - you can get reviews and first hand experience/recommendations/reviews. 

Re the non-local dimming one - it does appear it's still on their website at https://pimax.com/products/pimax-crystal-light-no-local-dimming-version, so not sure what the video is referring to there, unless there was a temporary glitch? Even so - I wouldn't be counting on this to be shipped until it actually started shipping as the website says "Coming Soon", and "out of stock". 

 

If you filter out the silliness you might find some 'dynamic' info there.

[Aapje]

I think that the short summary is that Pimax has a tendency to promise things when it is far from certain that they can deliver them. And when they can't make good on their promises, they try to cover it up.

So I basically agree with Dangerzone when it comes to the customers. Don't put that much trust in their promises, but look at what customers are actually getting.

And for the company I would offer the friendly bit of advice to improve massively on this front, because I think that with this course, a big lawsuit when they make a promise they cannot keep, is just a matter of time. It could be company ending. There is a reason why Apple, Intel, AMD and Nvidia are very careful with forward-looking statements, because they all know how bad a lawsuit over this can get.

Edited June 14, 2024 by Aapje

[Aapje]

Pimax posted an official response:

I think that it is very positive that they are (painfully) honest about their need to grow as a company. It is hard to change a company culture, so we'll have to see if they can do it, but this video is on point.

[maxTRX]

At least there is communication...  I'll give it a shot, see what happens.

[Dangerzone]

As hard as it is, the best method I believe is to "under promise and over deliver".  I practice this with my own business. While it has some minor disappointments when people realise they have to wait a little longer - it creates great appreciation when I actually beat the deadlines, and come in under budget. 

If they're expected to be released in 3 weeks, say 2 months. Then 'surprise' everyone when it's 3 weeks, (or more likely pushed back and it's 6 weeks). People still get a pleasant surprise of it being 2 weeks earlier than they thought - even though it's late from what was internally anticipated. 

It ruins the credibility of companies who do the opposite and over promise and under deliver - when really  there's zero difference in the quality of the product, the actual time customers receive it, etc between both actions - but a huge difference in perception by the customers. 

The Kiowa's release really stood out to me compared to almost all others. Silence. And then a "2 week" announcement - and they delivered. That's not to take anything away from other modules and dev's - I understand that last minute issues pop up. But the 'eagerness' to make announcements and have hype over the product creates unnecessary disappointment when the (more often than not) delays occur. 

I haven't had any experience with Pimax before. This release was my first. While I'll still keep my order in (at least for now) - it has given me a first impression that they can't be trusted when it comes to announcements.  This doesn't speak to their quality, etc. But it does speak to their promises. They've lost "advertising" cred- and this will be hard for them to win back. But it can be won back - they have to get the next lot of announcements right, or if anything, beat what they claim with their next announcements. 

I really hope they take this sort of consideration on board and learn from what's happened. They seem like a great newer company that is really passionate about the PCVR space, and it will be a real shame if they continued having delays after announcement if their marketing side continues to overpromise and under-deliver. I feel they have an opportunity to be far more connected with, and have a far better relationship with their customers than the faceless HP, Meta, etc brands and I really want to see Pimax succeed in leaps and bounds. 

[Aapje]

@Dangerzone

It's a bit more complicated than that, because companies are also fighting for customer and media attention. If a company underpromises, they will get less exposure and fewer customers will give them a chance.

Overdelivering results in happy customers, but it also tends to result in fewer customers. Unfortunately, companies that overpromise tend to do better when it comes to sales. So realistically, asking for a company to overdeliver often means that you ask for a company to lose out and disappear.

I think that the issue is more that Pimax has been overpromising too much and they need to tone it down quite a bit.

[Calvin.Pimax]

16 hours ago, Aapje said:

I think that the issue is more that Pimax has been overpromising too much and they need to tone it down quite a bit.

I understand that overpromising might attract attention and exposure in the market, but it hurts the company's reputation.

This is not a long-term marketing strategy, and we are trying to avoid this happening again.

[Dangerzone]

On 6/20/2024 at 12:07 AM, Aapje said:

@Dangerzone

It's a bit more complicated than that, because companies are also fighting for customer and media attention. If a company underpromises, they will get less exposure and fewer customers will give them a chance.

Overdelivering results in happy customers, but it also tends to result in fewer customers. Unfortunately, companies that overpromise tend to do better when it comes to sales. So realistically, asking for a company to overdeliver often means that you ask for a company to lose out and disappear.

I think that the issue is more that Pimax has been overpromising too much and they need to tone it down quite a bit.

Fair points, but when I mention 'overdeliver', I'm talking about timing - not features/functionality.  To say 2 months, and have it released in 5-6 weeks instead doesn't cost the company that much, and when people get stuff earlier than anticipated (albeit even just a couple of weeks earlier) - it can generate a lot of excitement, and also add to the companies reputation. 

Maybe it's just me - but punctuality to me is important. I'd prefer to be 15 minutes early than 5 minutes late. 

Underpromising (on time frames) and then overdelivering has much less risk compared to features. If you run late unexpectedly, you can (normally) still meet the deadline. If you do manage to beat the ETA time frame, that's even better. It also reduces stress internally and allows more elbow room. As mentioned in my last post, receiving it on say August 1st is receiving it on August 1st. But the person advised a July 15th receival has a very different experience to the person advised August 15th even though physically nothing is different between the two. 

I say this not to put Pimax down, but because I desperately want to see them not only succeed, but succeed in leaps and bounds. Where other VR companies have let us down big time (coming from HP I can speak from experience) - it's exciting to find a company actually excited and dedicated to their product, and is working in leaps and bounds to fill a space in the VR community. I would hate for something as simple as overpromising on time frames to have impact on their reputation if it is the currently standard "M.O." in the company. 

[boedha68]

I ordered Pimax crystal light with local dimming at 07 may. I just contacted the reseller in my country unboundxr. The feedback was that the headsets should be delivered next week. So fingers crossed. I am thrilled, because this is the replacement of my HP reverb G2. I was the volunteer on the roadshow in Nijmegen. I never expected that the headset was that good. By testing it out, I never saw this clarity, sharpness in headsets. With the new software the framerates where above my expectations in relation to the RTX 3090 that where used. At this pricepoint i think it's marvelous.

Edited June 24, 2024 by boedha68

[Johnny Dioxin]

I ordered mine on 17th May. According to their timetable from 16th June I should have received my email by now, but no sign of it and I see several people posting on Reddit who also haven't heard anything and they ordered before I did, so I'll be probably expecting delivery around December. I'm not joking, either.

Good job I'm not without a headset until then, so it's no biggie, but still doesn't inspire confidence. I have bought several accessories, from 3rd parties and from Pimax, though - so if it takes that long before my headset arrives, I'll lose the option of returning them if they are no good. My mistake - I won't make it again. I did that with all my headsets (for example with subscription lenses, so I can use it as soon as it arrives without trying to fit my normal spec's inside) but they were all delivered on time - or close enough to it.

 

*edit - just wanted to add that I was a real Pimax sceptic up to this time - I refused to consider any of their headsets due to their reputation for build quality, not delivering on promised functions etc, but I thought that this time they seemed to have turned a corner and I really believe that the Crystal Light will be a good product, so I decided to give them a chance now. I did kind of expect bumps along the path.

Edited June 24, 2024 by Johnny Dioxin

[Calvin.Pimax]

On 6/24/2024 at 10:32 AM, Dangerzone said:

Fair points, but when I mention 'overdeliver', I'm talking about timing - not features/functionality.  To say 2 months, and have it released in 5-6 weeks instead doesn't cost the company that much, and when people get stuff earlier than anticipated (albeit even just a couple of weeks earlier) - it can generate a lot of excitement, and also add to the companies reputation. 

Maybe it's just me - but punctuality to me is important. I'd prefer to be 15 minutes early than 5 minutes late. 

Underpromising (on time frames) and then overdelivering has much less risk compared to features. If you run late unexpectedly, you can (normally) still meet the deadline. If you do manage to beat the ETA time frame, that's even better. It also reduces stress internally and allows more elbow room. As mentioned in my last post, receiving it on say August 1st is receiving it on August 1st. But the person advised a July 15th receival has a very different experience to the person advised August 15th even though physically nothing is different between the two. 

I say this not to put Pimax down, but because I desperately want to see them not only succeed, but succeed in leaps and bounds. Where other VR companies have let us down big time (coming from HP I can speak from experience) - it's exciting to find a company actually excited and dedicated to their product, and is working in leaps and bounds to fill a space in the VR community. I would hate for something as simple as overpromising on time frames to have impact on their reputation if it is the currently standard "M.O." in the company. 

Agreed.

Delivery timeframe is a major factor in determining whether a company is reliable. We understand that our previous history was disappointing and let many users down. This time, we are committed to getting back on track. Although we are still slightly behind schedule, the entire company is working diligently to improve.

We have implemented a double inspection process for the headsets. The initial inspection occurs at the factory, and another inspection is conducted at our Shanghai office before the headsets are delivered to users. This ensures that the headsets are of the highest quality when they arrive, ultimately improving the user experience.

We appreciate your past feedback. Thank you for your continued support and understanding.

Have a nice day.

 

17 hours ago, Johnny Dioxin said:

so I'll be probably expecting delivery around December. I'm not joking, either.

Lol. As far as I know, production is ramping up, and the factory has been operating seven days a week. It won't be delayed until December; my best guess for delivery is August.

[Johnny Dioxin]

Well excuse me but I've been hearing that since I made my order and seen nothing to confirm it. However, if I tell myself it will be December it gives me no reason to feel disappointed (as long as it does indeed happen!).

August has been the estimate since my order, too. I must admit I still check my email several times a day just for this, as I want to make sure I get it confirmed promptly.

I'm sure the schedule would be adjusted accordingly, but the statement that the pre-orders need to be confirmed and paid by the end of June doesn't help, with us just days away from that date:

Quote

Pre-order users should complete the final payment by 6/30 to retain their position. After 7/1, unpaid pre-orders will be queued with regular orders, but the $30 reservation deposit can still be used.

On the most recent update

https://pimax.com/pages/crystal-light-shipment-status-update-06-16

Edited June 25, 2024 by Johnny Dioxin
grammaticus

[Dangerzone]

16 hours ago, Calvin.Pimax said:

Lol. As far as I know, production is ramping up, and the factory has been operating seven days a week. It won't be delayed until December; my best guess for delivery is August.

Just to confirm - is this the 'general' expected delivery now... August for most people? And if so, does this mean people in Australia and New Zealand (which seem to be at the back of the list) may be beyond that? 

I appreciate the candor - being open and bad news is far better than good news that isn't true, but I'm in a position where my VR has died. I've been waiting now for a month for the headset. I was first told June, then July, and in between I've found out Australia and NZ was being shipped after the rest of the world. None of this is to 'have a go' at what is happening. I appreciate that QC is highest on the list, and so it should be. If delays are required, then they're required. I'm just looking for solid info as to whether I should look at giving DCS a complete break for a few months and walk away and arrange my calendar accordingly (for organised online events, etc) accordingly. 

[Hartsblade]

@Dangerzone @Johnny Dioxin Have you joined the Crystal Light Discord?  If not, I suggest doing so, there are Pimax Employees there that can check your order number for you and give you any information about your specific situation.

[Calvin.Pimax]

20 hours ago, Johnny Dioxin said:

Well excuse me but I've been hearing that since I made my order and seen nothing to confirm it. However, if I tell myself it will be December it gives me no reason to feel disappointed (as long as it does indeed happen!).

August has been the estimate since my order, too. I must admit I still check my email several times a day just for this, as I want to make sure I get it confirmed promptly.

I'm sure the schedule would be adjusted accordingly, but the statement that the pre-orders need to be confirmed and paid by the end of June doesn't help, with us just days away from that date:

On the most recent update

https://pimax.com/pages/crystal-light-shipment-status-update-06-16

 

Could you please send me the order number? I can take a look at it for you.

[Johnny Dioxin]

Thanks Calvin, I've just sent a support ticket to Pimax to ask them to clarify my position and how my order proceeds a few minutes ago. If I am still unsure after they respond I'll send you a PM - I'll let you know

[Johnny Dioxin]

3 hours ago, Calvin.Pimax said:

Could you please send me the order number? I can take a look at it for you.

Hi Calvin - support got back to me already - amazingly quick response - and gave me a link to pay in full, which I've now done. Didn't accept my pre-order discount code, though (I have already told support) and unfortunately the price has gone up a further £8 from £908 to £916.80 since I first looked, but that's life, I guess.

£3 less than my Index, which I still use and like - if I can say the same about my Pimax Crystal Light in 5 years it will have been just as worth it!

Edited June 26, 2024 by Johnny Dioxin
typing faster than my brain can cope with!

[Calvin.Pimax]

Have you copied the correct discount code from the website?

Our support team will handle the £8 adjustment  I'm confident you'll be amazed by its visual performance.

If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to reach out to me.

Have a great day!

Cheers.

10 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

And if so, does this mean people in Australia and New Zealand (which seem to be at the back of the list) may be beyond that? 

Let me check with the team regarding the shipment schedule to Australia and New Zealand.