Matching CPU to GPU (3080) for a CPU upgrade

[Ski01]

Hi,

I'm currently running at i5 9600k and 3080.

CPU sure seems to be the bottleneck.  I plan to upgrade my MB and CPU.  I'd like to future proof so that this CPU/MB combo also remains relevant when I eventually upgrade to something like a 4080ti etc.

Can anyone recommend what CPU would be a good match for the GPU options I've noted above?   

[kksnowbear]

Just as preface, I personally (and as a professional) don't subscribe to the idea of "future proofing". 

That said, when it comes to gaming, there simply is no better way to go right now than the AMD 7800X3D. Naturally this assumes you have budget for it and so forth...but if it's available to you/within your means, it would be just about impossible to out-do, especially for what it costs.

Perhaps the best part, in terms of remaining relevant and "future proofing" is the fact that AMD is committed to supporting the platform (chipset/socket) with new CPUs for at least the two following generations.

That's my take, anyway...and I own one, plus have built a few more for others.

Edited June 23, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Maddaawg]

Both Intel and AMD are about to release new products with Arrow Lake for Intel and Zen 5 with AMD. So, if you're not in a hurry, I would wait for them to release and get some reviews. Or, they release and get a better price on an AMD as the Intel architecture is at its end with the 14th gen and the new socket an LGA1851 will be supported until 2026. My 10th gen got really 1 CPU cycle with the 11th not being an improvement over 10th. So, 2026 may only mean 2 CPU cycles and not much difference between them. The new Zen 5 is still going to be an AM5 socket, and they have said they will support AM5 until 2027. So go with an AMD now with AM5 socket like the 7800X3D now for the longest upgrade period as Intel constantly dumps sockets.

And yea, there is no such thing a future proofing because but getting the most out of it over time is a good idea

I would have gone with AMD when I built mine and I have always been an Intel user, but they were not available without giving them and arm and a leg during covid.

I am also looking for an upgrade this year.

Edited June 23, 2024 by Maddaawg

[Aapje]

No one can predict the future, but going for the 7800X3D on AM5 is almost certainly the most futureproof choice, of the current offerings*.

Going for a B650E or X670 motherboard will cost a bit more, but means that you get PCIe 5, which means that you are more futureproof with regard to future video cards. Then again, we've seen that you tend to get almost no performance loss for being one generation behind and only a slight loss for being two PCIe generations behind, with your motherboard compared to the video card. So you can also just save a bit of money and get B650 without the E.

* The next interesting chip is likely to be the 9800X3D with should come in September at the earliest, but possibly months later. But AMD tends to set the initial price too high, so by the time it is actually interesting to buy, it will be a little while after the release

[Ski01]

Hi All

thanks for the insights.  I’m not an early adopter so mainly looking at currently available chipsets at moderate price rather than current top chip or emerging.  Further feedback most appreciated.

[WipeUout]

Hi @Ski01

The key metric I use for DCS is single core performance.  Allthough DCS went Multi-thread, it still uses very few cores and generally the rendering core gets overwhelmed as soon as there is too much action in a mission.  Having a fast single core performamce will help ensure you have most headroom.

Having a 3D cache (7800x3D) certainly helps but in the current market, you can get an i7-14700k for the same price with signnificantly more horsepower as far as single core performance.  I would say 1st choice is i7-14700K, second 7800x3D.  If you need to avoid buying new RAM, you can still find intel mobos that support DDR4 also.

All depends on your wallet size and if you also play other stuff than DCS.  For other games, the 7800x3D is a better choice.    

Edited June 24, 2024 by WipeUout
Typo

[kksnowbear]

9 hours ago, Ski01 said:

Hi All

thanks for the insights.  I’m not an early adopter so mainly looking at currently available chipsets at moderate price rather than current top chip or emerging.  Further feedback most appreciated.

The problem with what you're asking is that, essentially any upgrade you can do that:

- will be 'future proof' and remain relevant *and*

- be enough of a performance increase (over the current 9600k) to feel 'worth it' in terms of cost *and*

- is not "current top chip or emerging"

Well...that set of specs is more or less prohibitive, IMO.  You already have a 9600K and you're concerned about being CPU bound, so anything that's going to actually "feel" like an upgrade that's worth the cost will also likely be approaching the current top chips in terms of cost.

You could go with a 9900K, **probably** supported by your current board (need more detail to know)...but, while it's definitely a step up from a 9600K, it's only around 5-10% performance increase (depending on the metric - and this is *NOT* measuring FPS, it's just CPU performance in general).

Anything that's going to perform better than that ~5% increase will almost certainly require replacing the motherboard and possibly RAM as well.  For example, an AMD 5800X3D might bring another ~5% (around 10% increase total over the 9600k) but will require a new motherboard.  If you can find one used and don't mind buying used components, it might be affordable to you, but if you want only new components, a 5800X3D retails now (US) for around $300, and a decent board might be had for another $150...depending on where you are, you can find reasonable bundles and maybe save a bit.

You have to consider, though, at that point, the board cannot be upgraded any further.  A 5800X3D is almost certainly the 'last stop' in performance for a build like this, so it's not what most would call "future proof".  And if you only want new parts (not used) the price is going to get up toward what you might get a newer generation platform for.

One thing that might fit in the (very narrow) range you're describing might be an AMD 7700X build ...you'll need new RAM, but at least (if it's done right) the board will be one that's worth upgrading once or twice in the future; one of the advantages of an AMD build like this is that (unlike Intel) the board will be supported with at least the next two generations of newer CPUs - this specifically applies to your requirement concerning remaining relevant/'future proofing'.

May I suggest you give us more info to work with?  For instance:

- What's your budget?  (As much as I hate asking people about money, I find as a professional that it is almost always the best place to start, and it invariably drives the final outcome more so than any other factor.)

- Your location? (This can greatly affect cost of upgrades, but more significantly can limit what's available regardless of cost)

- How much RAM do you have now, and what configuration (i.e., number of modules, speed, and CAS level? (These are very easy to find out if you don't know).

- What manufacturer/model is your current motherboard?  (To help determine if there is any possibility of a 'drop-in' CPU replacement, albeit limited in terms of performance increase)

- (helpful but not as crucial) When did you intend to have this upgrade completed/'wheels up'?  (Because often, the timetable can alter price and availability quite a bit).

- Whether you're willing to consider used parts (because this can make a big difference in cost).

Edited June 24, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Aapje]

2 hours ago, WipeUout said:

Hi @Ski01

The key metric I use for DCS is single core performance.  Allthough DCS went Multi-thread, it still uses very few cores and generally the rendering core gets overwhelmed as soon as there is too much action in a mission.  Having a fast single core performance will help ensure you have most headroom.

Having a 3D cache (7800x3D) certainly helps but in the current market, you can get an i7-14700k for the same price with signnificantly more horsepower as far as single core performance.  I would say 1st choice is i7-14700K, second 7800x3D.  If you need to avoid buying new RAM, you can still find intel mobos that support DDR4 also.

All depends on your wallet size and if you also play other stuff than DCS.  For other games, the 7800x3D is a better choice. 

Sorry, but this is just nonsense.  Simming games pretty much universally love the X3D-cache and DCS definitely does. With the 14700k you also have to deal with the CPU degradation issues and the fixes for this making the CPU slower.

With the 14700k, you have no options for real CPU upgrades in the future and you also have more heat output.

[WipeUout]

Sorry @Aapje but this makes sense depending on what you are looking for.  There is place for different opinion on this and I never said the X3D was bad, on the contrary.  Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, no need to bash other's if they are different than yours.

I stand by my comment that single core performance is critical for DCS but not so much in other games that fully exploit mutlti-threading.  Going to AMD will require new DDR5 RAM which adds to the cost also.  If cheap and fast is what you are looking for, then the i7 with a DDR4 mobo is the best choice.

[Aapje]

The person wanted to futureproof somewhat, which your suggestion for a dead-end platform and old RAM is not going to achieve.

His existing DDR4 is almost certainly not up to snuff when it is 9600k-era RAM, so he would need to buy new RAM anyway, and then it is better to go for DDR5 at this time, IMO.

Edited June 24, 2024 by Aapje

[Nightdare]

On 6/24/2024 at 4:29 AM, Ski01 said:

Hi All

thanks for the insights.  I’m not an early adopter so mainly looking at currently available chipsets at moderate price rather than current top chip or emerging.  Further feedback most appreciated.

I thought you said you wanted to futureproof?

Then current offerings at moderate price isn't the thing you're gonna be after

[Aapje]

24 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

I thought you said you wanted to futureproof?

Then current offerings at moderate price isn't the thing you're gonna be after

That is not exactly true. AM5 and the 7800X3D have been out long enough to no longer have early adopter teething issues, but it is still about as futureproof as you can get.

[Nodak]

Good luck on your motherboard and the 14700K, just be sure your not in a catch 22 situation where you actually need a 12000 or 13000 series chip to get a good flash going so the 14700K will work.  If your home building might want to make sure whatever board you do get has easy flash capability built in.  Board makers really fail these days in keeping their product up to date with the latest cpu's.  No one really wants to build specifically to 14000 series since its a dead end.

[Ski01]

Guys - brilliant diversity of views and opinions - just what I was after.  I guess I was really testing the theory of a low cost simple upgrade - clearly the advice above and from a few others is that this is unlikely to allow me to see any real step change over my current rig for DCS performance.

So plan B is clearly needed, and I'll have to pony up for the $$$ but I'm good with that if that is what is needed to really allow the 3080 to shine and also allow me to move up to a 40XX series later.  I really want great VR performance with my G2 headset.

So it seems to me a new MB that supports either i7 14700k or 7800X3D will be the go - so I may as well then go the DDR5 path.  With the DDR - is 32 GB enough?   Seem to be on my current rig.

I was not aware of challenges getting the 147000K working well.  Is that a heavy concern?

For the intel path I'm currently looking at Gigabyte Z790 Gaming X with i7 14700K

For the AMD path I'm looking at  Gigabyte X670 Gaming X AX V2 AM5 with 7800X3D

For either - Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB (2x16GB) C36 6200MHz DDR5

This will be teamed with my current ASUS TUF RTX 3080

Opinions, alternatives most welcome!!

 

[Aapje]

32 GB is more than enough for nearly all games, but DCS is one of the few games than can benefit from more. So I would suggest going for 48 GB or 64 GB.  48 GB may be a nice compromise that saves you a little money, but should give DCS enough room.

And there are some significant degradation issues with the 14700K and other high-end Intel processors. Intel has mandated more strict power limits for the motherboards, so if you get Intel, you need to make sure to upgrade your BIOS. However, it can degrade performance, so the processor may be a bit slower for you than earlier benchmarking suggests. And Intel hasn't actually figured out the (full) cause of the issues, so there is uncertainty still. They may need to do a software update for the processor that slows it down further (yes, there is software in there).

I would personally avoid this mess and go for AMD, because right now I really only see benefits to go to them and no real downsides.

[Maddaawg]

I've been using Intel since 1990 and have never had any issues. My last build would have been AMD had not covid interfered. 

With that said, go with AMD. The AM5 socket will make a future path for an upgrade where as the the LGA1700 is ending this year so no more upgrades without another motherboard with the exception of a i9-14900.

Edited June 26, 2024 by Maddaawg

[WipeUout]

5 hours ago, Ski01 said:

I was not aware of challenges getting the 147000K working well.  Is that a heavy concern?

For the intel path I'm currently looking at Gigabyte Z790 Gaming X with i7 14700K

There are lots of report out there about the instabilities of the 13th and 14th gen i9 CPU because mobo makers do not follow intel's recommended settings as default in the BIOS.  There is less issues reported for the i7 but in any case If you follow these settings, no issue and your CPU will last several years.  If intel set max recommended power to 253 watts, set it up in the BIOS.

As far as selection of a mobo, it is a good choice to go with a Z790 but do not spend too much, just the basic Z790 is more than enough and provide access to all possible settings for the CPU voltage, power , etc.  Overclocking is not a good idea as it will shorten the life of your CPU but the Z790 is required to access important BIOS settings for a K sku.