Adding another pair of 2x16 GB RAM, can I mismatch timings?

[ExGreyFox]

Hi Folks,

I am no RAM expert. Currently still running my 8700k/3070 Ti/32GB RAM setup and given how DCS has been plagued with some performance issues as of recent, I have toyed with the idea of throwing in another 2x16GB pair of RAM sicks to fill up all 4 slots. 

I am currently using a pair of 2x16GB F4-3200C15D-32GTZR G.Skill sticks with timings of 15-15-15-35. I cannot find this exact model anymore. The closest I can find that is available to purchase is the F4-3600C18D-32GTZR with 18-22-22-42 timings. 

Basically I would be mixing a pair of CL15 RAM with a pair of CL18 RAM.

Is there any possible way to make these 2 pairs play well together?

[TKhaos]

It is possible but not advisable, could result in crashing and BSD. Normally if you mix and match Ram your best to leave the Bios set to auto and it will generally set the timings to the slower of the two so you would lose some performance. Apart from timings it really needs to be the same speed as well so your new 3600MHz will be running at 3200MHz, so again loss of performance and possible issues with crashing. They also need to be running the same voltage as that can differ slightly. It's like buying a Porsche and sticking a Mini engine in it. Of course another big factor is your motherboard and how intelligent it is.

Personally it's not something I would ever do as there are too many varibles and I would never advise anyone I deal with to mix and match, I wouldn't build a system for them with mixed memory or repair one using mixed memory lol

For what Ram costs these days I would replace the whole lot and try and sell the old stuff or keep it as a spare backup which is what I normally do.

I always replace my Ram in pairs or quads at the same time, even buying the same brand and model can have issues as they fine tune stuff so have different revisions. My Corsair memory when I upgraded was only 12 months apart but it had two revisons by then and quite a few changes so rather than chance it just got all new but that's personal choice.

Edited July 23, 2024 by TKhaos
Spelling Mistakes

[diego999]

They should work, but at the speed and latencies of the slower sticks.

I mixed RAM types and brands in several PCs, not a problem, but always letting the motherboard manage the settings (mind you, this is a big no-no for top of the line rigs with expensive components, but it's not my case).

This PC I play DCS with has 64GB, two Corsair sticks and two Kingston sticks.

AMD CPUs are overall more sensitive to RAM speed and latencies. Intel ones, not to much. And I think the benefit of having more ram in this case will be greater than less ram with better latencies and speed.

Edited July 24, 2024 by diego999

[LucShep]

Will it boot windows and work, if mem settings on BIOS are placed put on "Auto"? ....yeah, it may do it.
Or if set with the slowest timings and speed between the two?   ....yeah, it will run.
Will it be 100% stable all the time?  ....very doubtfull, IMO.

The problem is you'll be mixing differents kits with completely different base timings (and sub-timings as well) and also different speeds.
Not worth the trouble, even if Intel is far less sensitive when it comes to memory speeds and timings. 

Don't get me wrong, it's not "impossibrruu".  
But if you're asking that question, I imediately take it that you're not into the possible headaches of mem tweaking and stress testing.
And why I say that max-mix of RAM kits aren't a good choice. Also, it'll never be as good as propper tuned factory kit, for which you just load XMP profile in BIOS and it's done. 


If you like GSKILL and you're not necessarily into rainbow puke, I'd say to look around for the Ripjaws V  F4-3200C16D-64GVK  (2x 32GB, 3200 C16-18-18-38, 1.35v): 
https://www.gskill.com/product/165/184/1571733948/F4-3200C16D-64GVK

EDIT:  there's also the Trident Z  F4-3200C16D-64GTZR if you want to keep the same aesthetics (w/ RGB) as those you have.
They're basically the same memory as the F4-3200C16D-64GVK:  https://www.gskill.com/product/165/166/1604284896/F4-3200C16D-64GTZR

F4-3200C16D-64GVK goes for about $120.  F4-3200C16D-64GTZR goes for about $140.  (...check in Newegg, Amazon, Ebay, etc)
Either of them is a fairly good deal if you intend to to use that system with DCS for a while still.

In the product links I posted you have also the QVL for compatible motherboards.
But, as far as I've seen, either of those two 64GB DDR4 kits should work with any desktop PC that supports DDR4 3200Mhz RAM, and great with an i7 8700K.

Edited July 24, 2024 by LucShep
added link for RAM kit webpage

[ExGreyFox]

13 hours ago, LucShep said:

Will it boot windows and work, if mem settings on BIOS are placed put on "Auto"? ....yeah, it may do it.
Or if set with the slowest timings and speed between the two?   ....yeah, it will run.
Will it be 100% stable all the time?  ....very doubtfull, IMO.

The problem is you'll be mixing differents kits with completely different base timings (and sub-timings as well) and also different speeds.
Not worth the trouble, even if Intel is far less sensitive when it comes to memory speeds and timings. 

Don't get me wrong, it's not "impossibrruu".  
But if you're asking that question, I imediately take it that you're not into the possible headaches of mem tweaking and stress testing.
And why I say that max-mix of RAM kits aren't a good choice. Also, it'll never be as good as propper tuned factory kit, for which you just load XMP profile in BIOS and it's done. 


If you like GSKILL and you're not necessarily into rainbow puke, I'd say to look around for the Ripjaws V  F4-3200C16D-64GVK  (2x 32GB, 3200 C16-18-18-38, 1.35v): 
https://www.gskill.com/product/165/184/1571733948/F4-3200C16D-64GVK

EDIT:  there's also the Trident Z  F4-3200C16D-64GTZR if you want to keep the same aesthetics (w/ RGB) as those you have.
They're basically the same memory as the F4-3200C16D-64GVK:  https://www.gskill.com/product/165/166/1604284896/F4-3200C16D-64GTZR

F4-3200C16D-64GVK goes for about $120.  F4-3200C16D-64GTZR goes for about $140.  (...check in Newegg, Amazon, Ebay, etc)
Either of them is a fairly good deal if you intend to to use that system with DCS for a while still.

In the product links I posted you have also the QVL for compatible motherboards.
But, as far as I've seen, either of those two 64GB DDR4 kits should work with any desktop PC that supports DDR4 3200Mhz RAM, and great with an i7 8700K.

 

Thanks a ton for the info!

I would love to go with the Trident Z  F4-3200C16D-64GTZR but my mobo is the ASUS ROG Maximus X Formula and all QVL kits are 4x16GB configuration. I think that means that a single DIMM slot on my mobo only allows 16GB of RAM and no more. I also don't see the Z370 chipset on the QVL list of that RAM kit either. I think the biggest concern is that all 64GB RAM configurations in the QVL list of my mobo come in 4x16GB setup.

Would it theoretically be ok to try them anyway as in a "this should work" or no? 

If not, the closest I can find that is available on Amazon is F4-2400C15Q-64GTZRX https://www.gskill.com/product/165/166/1536548425/F4-2400C15Q-64GTZR but that bumps be down from 3200 to 2400MHz. Would this pose any performance degradation? 

Edited July 24, 2024 by ExGreyFox

[LucShep]

3 hours ago, ExGreyFox said:

If not, the closest I can find that is available on Amazon is F4-2400C15Q-64GTZRX https://www.gskill.com/product/165/166/1536548425/F4-2400C15Q-64GTZR but that bumps be down from 3200 to 2400MHz. Would this pose any performance degradation? 

Yes, performance impact will be noticeable.  Avoid it!
 

3 hours ago, ExGreyFox said:

Thanks a ton for the info!

I would love to go with the Trident Z  F4-3200C16D-64GTZR but my mobo is the ASUS ROG Maximus X Formula and all QVL kits are 4x16GB configuration. I think that means that a single DIMM slot on my mobo only allows 16GB of RAM and no more. I also don't see the Z370 chipset on the QVL list of that RAM kit either. I think the biggest concern is that all 64GB RAM configurations in the QVL list of my mobo come in 4x16GB setup.

I think they don't appear in the QVL of a motherboard prior to Z390 because 2x 32GB DDR4 kits only became common during that chipset period.
Manufacturers don't re-test previous gen motherboards for QVL after a subsequent new chipset is launched (not that I know of).

FWIW, I've used RipjawsV F4-3200C16D-64GVK on an Asus Z270 ASUS Maximus IX Hero + i7 7700K, with no issues whatsoever - an older system than yours.
It didn't have that RAM on the QVL (for the same mentioned reason).  EDIT:  the guy this system went too says it's the 2x16GB kit version, so not an example after all!

AFAIK, unless I'm missing something, I see no reason why either of those GSKILL two kits would create a compatibility problem with your motherboard.
But then all I have to offer is too little - my opinion through prior experience on an differente (older system).   

Edited July 24, 2024 by LucShep

[TKhaos]

1 hour ago, ExGreyFox said:

I would love to go with the Trident Z  F4-3200C16D-64GTZR but my mobo is the ASUS ROG Maximus X Formula and all QVL kits are 4x16GB configuration. I think that means that a single DIMM slot on my mobo only allows 16GB of RAM and no more.

QVL lists aren't the gospel anyway, it just means that it's memory they have tested, my Corsair isn't on my list but works fine. It's impossible for them to test every memory there is on the market so they go with selections.

If you go on to the G.Skill website and use their Ram Configurator it lists loads of compatible modules that are 3200MHz and above.

https://www.gskill.com/configurator?page=1&cls=1529635169&manufacturer=1524725352&chipset=1524723693&model=1532077071&adSearch2=Capacity§64GB (16GBx4),Tested_Speed§3200 MT/s,

Go on the Asus site and download the latest Memory QVL list, it's got loads of 64GB G.Skill modules listed right up to the maximum speed the board supports.

https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-maximus/rog-maximus-x-formula-model/helpdesk_qvl/

The memory you have selected might only be 2400MHz but as it's standard 1.20v it can be overclocked to regain some of that lost performance, not that there is a massive difference between 3200MHz and 2400Mhz anyway, well not in the real world.

This is a real world testing with some of the components you have in yours, if you look there is a big difference in FPS if you run 1920x1080 or lower, 2550x1440 and above is almost the same.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-ram-speed,5951-5.html

 

Edited July 24, 2024 by TKhaos

[LucShep]

9 minutes ago, TKhaos said:

Your motherboard only supports 16GB per channel to a maximum of 64GB, that's why on the QVL list it only 4x16GB, so if you had gone ahead with 2x32GB as sugguested it wouldn't work.

The memory you have sel

Are you sure that motherboard only supports 16GB per channel?
Now I'm confused... IIRC the max capacity limit was 64GB and it would accept up to that  capacity it in any configuration.

Edited July 24, 2024 by LucShep

[TKhaos]

7 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Are you sure that motherboard only supports 16GB per channel?
Now I'm confused... IIRC the max capacity limit was 64GB and it would accept up to that  capacity it in any configuration.

 

Trying to find the page I was looking at on the Asus Site, might be an older revision of the board.

[kksnowbear]

The board will support up to 128G following a BIOS update per Asus website.

https://rog.asus.com/us/motherboards/rog-maximus/rog-maximus-x-formula-model/helpdesk_bios/

 

Edited July 24, 2024 by kksnowbear

[LucShep]

12 minutes ago, TKhaos said:

Trying to find the page I was looking at on the Asus Site, might be an older revision of the board.

Meanwhile I just phoned the guy with the Asus Z270 ASUS Maximus IX Hero and i7 7700K.
He says the kit we placed was Ripjaws-V F4-3200C16D-32GVK (2 x16GB), not the 2x 32GB after all.  my mistake with the info (sorry!)

I think you're onto something @TKhaos, maybe we should just find a 4x16GB DDR4 kit, maybe 3000 CL15, or 3200 CL16. 


EDIT:  found this one at a good price ($114,00):  https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232092

It's on their QVL for Z370 ROG Maximus X Formula:  https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/184/1536139226/F4-3200C16Q-64GVK-QVL

Edited July 24, 2024 by LucShep

[TKhaos]

13 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

The board will support up to 128G following a BIOS update per Asus website.

https://rog.asus.com/us/motherboards/rog-maximus/rog-maximus-x-formula-model/helpdesk_bios/

 

 

Hadn't got as far as Bios updates but just noticed that

7 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Meanwhile I just phoned the guy with the Asus Z270 ASUS Maximus IX Hero and i7 7700K.
He says the kit we placed was Ripjaws-V F4-3200C16D-32GVK (2 x16GB), not the 2x 32GB after all.  my mistake with the info (sorry!)

Well I was wrong as well, never checked Bios updates for the board and as kksnowbear pointed out there's a bios update for it to support 128GB. There new QVL list as well has loads of 64GB options right up to 3733MHz so the 2400MHz is kinda redundant as well.

Edited July 24, 2024 by TKhaos

[ExGreyFox]

7 minutes ago, TKhaos said:

Hadn't got as far as Bios updates but just noticed that

Well I was wrong as well, never checked Bios updates for the board and as kksnowbear pointed out there's a bios update for it to support 128GB. There new QVL list as well has loads of 64GB options right up to 3733MHz so the 2400MHz is kinda redundant as well.

 

Ok, I am going to go ahead and run the BIOS update and will report back. Then I think I should be able to go with the Trident Z  F4-3200C16D-64GTZR

Edited July 24, 2024 by ExGreyFox

[kksnowbear]

FWIW I'm fairly certain all Z370 and 390 boards got the same BIOS update to 128G. I've done it on several boards including a DCS player here on this site.

1 minute ago, ExGreyFox said:

 

Ok, I am going to go ahead and run the BIOS update and will report back. 

Check PM please

Edited July 24, 2024 by kksnowbear

[ExGreyFox]

I dont see where BIOS 2701 Supports 128GB, can you guys point me to that info? 

5 minutes ago, TKhaos said:

 

I had a look on the site and the ROG MAXIMUS X FORMULA BIOS 2503 update pushes it up to 128GB, providing that's the exact board.

https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-maximus/rog-maximus-x-formula-model/helpdesk_bios/

 

Ah ok, so is it fair to say that 2701 also includes this change?

[kksnowbear]

Yes. Same link I posted earlier, but because it's an earlier BIOS version, you have to scroll down the list to see the change that incorporated 128G support.

Edited July 24, 2024 by kksnowbear

[TKhaos]

5 minutes ago, ExGreyFox said:

I dont see where BIOS 2701 Supports 128GB, can you guys point me to that info? 

Ah ok, so is it fair to say that 2701 also includes this change?

If you do Show All it's any bios after 2503 but if your update might as well do the latest 2701.

 

Edited July 24, 2024 by TKhaos

[ExGreyFox]

Thanks a lot gentlemen. Will run the update now. 

[LucShep]

 

15 minutes ago, ExGreyFox said:

Thanks a lot gentlemen. Will run the update now. 

Worst (best?) case scenario, and I think probably the route you should go for...

The F4-3200C16Q-64GVK (4x 16GB, 3200 16-18-18-38, 1.35v) is available and at a good price: 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7Xbkcf/gskill-memory-f43200c16q64gvk

It's also on their QVL for Z370 ROG Maximus X Formula:  
https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/184/1536139226/F4-3200C16Q-64GVK-QVL

The Trident Z RGB version (F4-3200C16Q-64GTZR) is overpriced at the moment (over $350, where available).

Edited July 24, 2024 by LucShep

[ExGreyFox]

Phew, that was stressful lol. I guess because I went from BIOS 1401 all the way to 2701 there were several reboots with black screens reading "Updating ME" and "Updating BIOS" so as to incrementally update itself one revision at a time  but eventually PC came back up just fine, plugged in HOTAS, ran DCS and all is well.

So now I should be able to grab the 2x32 GB kit Trident Z  F4-3200C16D-64GTZR correct?

Edited July 24, 2024 by ExGreyFox

[TKhaos]

9 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Worst case scenario (and I think probably the route you should go for)...

The F4-3200C16Q-64GVK (4x 16GB, 3200 16-18-18-38, 1.35v) is available and at a good price: 

I was looking at there new QVL list. If you were going to mix and match least these have the same voltage and timings on both default 1.20v (2133MHZ) and the overclocked 1.35v (3200MHZ) using XMP, not as pretty as the Trident but could tell people it's a feature  

G.SKILL F4-3200C15D-32GRK 32GB(16GB*2) 15-15-15-35 1.35V
G.SKILL F4-3200C15D-32GTZ 32GB(16GB*2) 15-15-15-35 1.35V
G.SKILL F4-3200C15D-32GVK 32GB(16GB*2) 15-15-15-35 1.35V
G.SKILL F4-3200C15D-32GVR 32GB(16GB*2) 15-15-15-35 1.35V

If it was me personally I would just go for what you suggested and get 4x16GB matched, I look at it like memory isn't something you upgrade every other month so better looking at long term value.

2 minutes ago, ExGreyFox said:

Phew, that was stressful lol. I guess because I went from BIOS 1401 all the way to 2701 there were several reboots but eventually PC came back up just fine, plugged in HOTAS, ran DCS and all is well.

So now I should be able to grab the 2x32 GB kit Trident Z  F4-3200C16D-64GTZR correct?

 

Good it's sorted, bios updates can be stressful as you can brick the motherboard but least it's done now. I do tell anyone I do it for the risks that can be involved

[ExGreyFox]

3 minutes ago, TKhaos said:

I was looking at there new QVL list. If you were going to mix and match least these have the same voltage and timings on both default 1.20v (2133MHZ) and the overclocked 1.35v (3200MHZ) using XMP, not as pretty as the Trident but could tell people it's a feature  

G.SKILL F4-3200C15D-32GRK 32GB(16GB*2) 15-15-15-35 1.35V
G.SKILL F4-3200C15D-32GTZ 32GB(16GB*2) 15-15-15-35 1.35V
G.SKILL F4-3200C15D-32GVK 32GB(16GB*2) 15-15-15-35 1.35V
G.SKILL F4-3200C15D-32GVR 32GB(16GB*2) 15-15-15-35 1.35V

If it was me personally I would just go for what you suggested and get 4x16GB matched, I look at it like memory isn't something you upgrade every other month so better looking at long term value.

Good it's sorted, bios updates can be stressful as you can brick the motherboard but least it's done now. I do tell anyone I do it for the risks that can be involved

So after the BIOS update and being able to support a total of 128GB RAM, am I still not able to go with the F4-3200C16D-64GTZR 2x32GB kit?

[TKhaos]

4 minutes ago, TKhaos said:

So now I should be able to grab the 2x32 GB kit Trident Z  F4-3200C16D-64GTZR correct?

They don't show up on the QVL list, well the new one but all these do:

G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GRK	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GVK	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GTZ	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GTZKW	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GTZKY	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GTZKO	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GTZSW	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GTZSK	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C15Q-64GVR	64GB(16GB*4)	15-15-15-35	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C15Q-64GVK	64GB(16GB*4)	15-15-15-35	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C15Q-64GTZ	64GB(16GB*4)	15-15-15-35	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C15Q-64GTZSW	64GB(16GB*4)	15-15-15-35	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C14Q-64GVR	64GB(16GB*4)	14-14-14-34	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C14Q-64GVK	64GB(16GB*4)	14-14-14-34	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C14Q-64GTZ	64GB(16GB*4)	14-14-14-34	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C14Q-64GTZSW	64GB(16GB*4)	14-14-14-34	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GVK	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C14Q-64GVR	64GB(16GB*4)	14-14-14-34	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C14Q-64GTZR	64GB(16GB*4)	14-14-14-34	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C15Q-64GTZR	64GB(16GB*4)	15-15-15-35	1.35V	●	●

[ExGreyFox]

Just now, TKhaos said:

They don't show up on the QVL list, well the new one but all these do:

G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GRK	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GVK	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GTZ	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GTZKW	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GTZKY	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GTZKO	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GTZSW	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GTZSK	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C15Q-64GVR	64GB(16GB*4)	15-15-15-35	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C15Q-64GVK	64GB(16GB*4)	15-15-15-35	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C15Q-64GTZ	64GB(16GB*4)	15-15-15-35	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C15Q-64GTZSW	64GB(16GB*4)	15-15-15-35	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C14Q-64GVR	64GB(16GB*4)	14-14-14-34	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C14Q-64GVK	64GB(16GB*4)	14-14-14-34	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C14Q-64GTZ	64GB(16GB*4)	14-14-14-34	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C14Q-64GTZSW	64GB(16GB*4)	14-14-14-34	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C16Q-64GVK	64GB(16GB*4)	16-18-18-38	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C14Q-64GVR	64GB(16GB*4)	14-14-14-34	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C14Q-64GTZR	64GB(16GB*4)	14-14-14-34	1.35V	●	●
G.SKILL	F4-3200C15Q-64GTZR	64GB(16GB*4)	15-15-15-35	1.35V	●	●

Strange, I would think that since a maximum of 128 GB is now supported, that would constitute that that a single DIMM can support up to 32GB now and 2x32GB kits should be on the QVL list. 

[TKhaos]

4 minutes ago, ExGreyFox said:

Strange, I would think that since a maximum of 128 GB is now supported, that would constitute that that a single DIMM can support up to 32GB now and 2x32GB kits should be on the QVL list. 

Probably find that QVL list was updated before the 2507 bios release, it's off there official website, shame they don't add dates when it was updated, that's just a photo the download don't work need to go to the site.

https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-maximus/rog-maximus-x-formula-model/helpdesk_qvl/

 

Edited July 24, 2024 by TKhaos