[Bug?] Jester AI wants to align with just the Right Engine started

[Rudel_chw]

Hello,

When I do a normal pneumatic start, with a Ground Air Source, Jester will wait until I have both engines started, before asking permission to begin the INS alignment.

However, when doing a Cartridge Start, Jester begins to ask as soon as the Right engine is started and before I have started the Left engine. Is this behavior a bug, or is it intended?

Thanks for any help with this. 

 

Eduardo

[=475FG= Dawger]

1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said:

Hello,

When I do a normal pneumatic start, with a Ground Air Source, Jester will wait until I have both engines started, before asking permission to begin the INS alignment.

However, when doing a Cartridge Start, Jester begins to ask as soon as the Right engine is started and before I have started the Left engine. Is this behavior a bug, or is it intended?

Thanks for any help with this. 

 

Eduardo

He asks when you turn on the left generator no matter what. 

[Rudel_chw]

2 minutes ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

He asks when you turn on the left generator no matter what. 

will record a couple of videos, one from a pneumatic  start and another from a cartridge start, so I can show how it looks on my Dcs.

[HB_Painter]

Hey thanks for the report! A track and video would be highly appreciated! Sounds like a bug!

[Rudel_chw]

2 hours ago, HB_Painter said:

Hey thanks for the report! A track and video would be highly appreciated! Sounds like a bug!

Thanks for the interest, I will record both tonight and add them here. 

[Rudel_chw]

6 hours ago, HB_Painter said:

A track and video would be highly appreciated! Sounds like a bug!

 

Hi again, here are the videos, first a Pneumatic Cold Start:

 

 

I forgot to set the Left Master Engine switch before attempting to start it, but corrected quickly. Jester offers the alignment 15 seconds after both engines are at Idle.

 

Now, here is a cartridge Cold Start:

 

 

I set the left generator On, as per procedure, and then 12 seconds later Jester is offering to align even if the left engine has yet to be started.

 

The track files are almost 2 MB, so I uploaded them to internet instead of attaching them, here are the links:

 

F4E - Pneumatic Cold Start.trk

 

F4E - Cartridge Cold Start.trk

 

If I start the left engine quick enough this bug is not very noticeable, but I was editing a cold start training mission, where the pace is slower because of all the instructor explanations at each step, and it really messes a proper training flow ... the only solution so far, for my mission, is to deviate from procedure and enable the left Generator AFTER the engine has been started.

 

Best regards and thanks for the interest on this issue 

 

Eduardo

[HB_Painter]

Hey thanks for the videos and tracks those are a great help! Out of curiosity, which procedures are you referring to? Because normally the steps you are doing are a bit out of order as you would chuck both engine master switches to on, start the right engine and only after its online and in idle you would put the right generator switch to on. After that repeat the startup for the left engine and only if its online and in idle you would put the left generator to on.

The normal startup procedure can be found in the manual here: https://f4.manuals.heatblur.se/procedures/startup.html

but theres also a page in the kneeboard that comes with the plane with those steps

Edit:

To use cartridges you can basically change out the

1.

External Air source

CONNECT RIGHT

Step to using the cartridge for the right or left engine depending on which you are starting

Best Regards

Edited July 28 by HB_Painter

[Rudel_chw]

5 hours ago, HB_Painter said:

Out of curiosity, which procedures are you referring to?

 

I'm following the procedures of the manual of the real aircraft: TO IF-4E-1 FLIGHT MANUAL, dated February 1979.

 

5 hours ago, HB_Painter said:

Because normally the steps you are doing are a bit out of order as you would chuck both engine master switches to on, start the right engine and only after its online and in idle you would put the right generator switch to on.

 

I was following this procedure:

 

CARTRIDGE START 
This procedure is based upon external power not being
available....

1. Engine master switches - ON
2. Right generator control switch - GEN ON 
3. Ignition button - DEPRESS AND HOLD WILE
ADVANCING THROTTLE

 

5 hours ago, HB_Painter said:

After that repeat the startup for the left engine and only if its online and in idle you would put the left generator to on.

 

Thanks a lot for pointing this out, it was my mistake ... the manual says

 

14. Start the left engine per steps 4 through 12
substituting LEFT in all cases.

 

.... reading so fast I didn't realize that the "Right Generator ON" was not included 

 

But actually, as you say, the left generator is enabled LAST, unlike the right engine:

15. Left generator switch - GEN ON
 

 

5 hours ago, HB_Painter said:

The normal startup procedure can be found in the manual here: https://f4.manuals.heatblur.se/procedures/startup.html

 

For Cartridge start, this is what the HB manual tells me:

https://f4.manuals.heatblur.se/procedures/special_procedures/cartridge_start.html

 

Step	System	Action
1.	Engine master switches	ON
2.	Right generator switch	GEN ON
3.	Ignition button	PRESS AND HOLD

 

and then, whoever wrote it made the same mistake I did, when he writes:

 

10.

Left Engine

START PER STEPS 1-7

 

  however, step 11 is correct:

 

11.

Left Generator

ON

 

5 hours ago, HB_Painter said:

Best Regards

 

Same, thanks a lot for giving time to my issue, I will now update my procedure and fix my Cold Start mission accordingly 

Cheers and thanks a lot for such a wonderful simulated aircraft.

 

 

Eduardo