Can the navigator actually see the enemy at six, as we do in the DCS in the co-pilot's seat

[Red_Dragon]

I probably shouldn't have created a new topic for this question, but I didn't find a more suitable one.,, and  the topic with the general discussion of mosquito is closed by the moderator. I had an absurd argument about the job of a mosquito co-pilot. I came across the claim that the navigator could not detect the enemy well on its 6 because he was strapped in and his seat was facing forward.I read Abraham J. Scramble! about that, but is there any documentary evidence of the co-pilot's duty to observe plane's six? It seems absurd to me, but has anyone come across more accurate information about the work of the co-pilot during the mosquito flight? And can anyone tell me exactly what the position of the co-pilot was called in the documents of that time. English is not my native language, so it is difficult for me to navigate and formulate correct queries in Google. Is there any documentary information that the duties of the co-pilot included observation or maybe vice versa (of course I don't really think so) am I wrong and the co-pilot was not obliged to watch plane's 6?

Edited November 18, 2024 by Red_Dragon

[Picchio]

I've just finished reading "Mosquito Intruder" by David McIntosh. He was a navigator and in the book he often recalls how he was being frequently told (or, in his own words, whenever the pilot "couldn't think of anything else" to say ) to look out the back.

Commenting the task, he also wrote "I still have a bad back and neck".

Edited November 18, 2024 by Picchio

[Red_Dragon]

8 минут назад, Picchio сказал:

I've just finished reading "Mosquito Intruder" by David McIntosh. He was a navigator and in the book he often recalls how he was being frequently told (or, in his own words, whenever the pilot "couldn't think of anything else" to say ) to look out the back.

Commenting the task, he also wrote "I still have a bad back and neck".

Thank you, this is interesting information, just what interests me. If you have the opportunity or find it possible to find some time for this, it would  be great to see a screenshot with the text or maybe just a copied text from the electronic version of the book.. If not, thanks anyway for the information 

[Picchio]

Sure thing, here is one excerpt, commenting the first combat trip, p. 53.

I can look for more if you need them.

Oh, and to answer one of your questions: if I'm not mistaken, the co-pilot is just called "navigator" (or alligator, according to the pilot McIntosh was assigned to, quite a character!).

Edited November 18, 2024 by Picchio

[Red_Dragon]

Thank you, this is what I needed! By the way, this book seems really interesting 

[Picchio]

On 11/19/2024 at 11:44 AM, Red_Dragon said:

Thank you, this is what I needed! By the way, this book seems really interesting 

It definitely is and I also found it to be well written. I found an early, now out of print edition for very little money, but there is also a newer edition that goes by the title "Terror in the starboard seat".

I can only recommend it!

[Bozon]

In combat reports the navigator is often referred to as the “observer”. I suppose it somewhat depended on the squadron because for intruders, bombers, and recon he was actually navigating, but in night fighters there was not much navigation to do and was the “AI operator”, and in fighter-bomber squadrons or coastal command (if not the lead navigator) they were doing mostly spotting ground targets or ships, (plus radio operating, etc) so “observer” sounds fitting.

[TasDozer]

I've just finished reading "Terror in the starboard seat" after seeing it recommended somewhere on this forum - possibly this thread. Phenomenal book!

IIRC there was a bit of vagueness about the title of non-pilot aircrew, who the RAF treated as second-class citizens to an extent. In the book you see photos of David McIntosh and he has an "O" badge (Observer):

I have a book downstairs that specifically discusses the rise and fall of the RAF Navigator role and could probably give specific answers, but I'm sat comfortably here waiting for DCS to update and don't feel like moving