A-10A tracking targets?

[topol-m]

In the A-10A fast action mission from the main FC menu there are 5-6 targets, some of them moving, that are somehow tracked by the Hog. When you enter ground attack mode the hud displays the current tracked target by a romb. Is this realistic feature of the A-10A? Even if it is behind you it is still tracked? And when you destroy it the next target is imediately found and tracked. What kind of sensors are doing that? And how are they working in 360 degrees? I assume that there is a possibility to enter target coordinates before mission start but i don`t understand how can you track several moving targets all around you unless you are using radar. :huh:

[pauldy]

Probably uses target coordinates. It's kinda similar as how to a naval target is displayed in the Su-33 HUD in game.

 

Albeit the real world Hog doesn't have 360 degree target track.

Maybe the people who know more about Hog could explain if there's such tracking ability.

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

When you enter ground attack mode the hud displays the current tracked target by a romb. Is this realistic feature of the A-10A?

 

The romb or diamond is generated by the Pave Penny laser spot tracker. It is a device fitted to the A-10 in real life so its use in Lockon is realistic (kind of).

 

Here is my standard cut and paste explanation about the diamond.

 

What is the Diamond?

The diamond is your Target Designator. It simulates that some forward observer has pointed a laser at the object to designate it as a target. Imagine we have some forward observer or special forces troops on the ground and they have spotted our target. They put a laser on it, and then we see the diamond in the HUD because our A-10 carries the Pave Penny laser tracker. That's the idea anyhow.

 

Why is it there in some missions and not others?

If the mission designer has set up an ATTACK waypoint and used the TARGET button in the Mission Editor (ME) to mark a particular target(s), then you will see the diamond as soon as you change to air to ground mode (7). If the target is out of the field of view of the HUD it will have an X through it. If you kill the target and there are multiple targets are set up, the diamond moves to the next target (simulating the friendly ground troops moving their laser designator onto the next target), and finally dissapears when you have killed all the marked targets.

 

Some mission designers might only mark some or none of the targets you need to kill to get mission success, other targets may only be mentioned in the mission briefing.

If there are multiple targets in a mission, you can swap the diamond between them by pressing ' key (depends on your keyboard - anyway it is the same key that swaps airfields when you are in NAV - RETURN mode). This simulates you using a radio to ask the friendly ground troops to swap the targets.

 

One thing to be aware of with the Mission Editor is that you can set up a number of vehicles as a group. It is a quick way to set up a convoy for example. But in the context of the diamond, the Mission Editor sees a group (even though it has several vehicles in it) as a single item.

The diamond will point to the 1st vehicle in a group. If you kill the 1st in the group, the diamond will move to the next one (the new 1st in group) etc until all are destroyed. You can't move the diamond along the column of vehicles. Doesn't stop you shooting at the back or middle of the convoy, but the diamond will always point to 1st in the group.

This can be kinda confusing until you get used to it.

 

Is it necessary to lock on by pressing TAB?

All the diamond is doing is showing you where the target is located. You still have to attack it yourself with whatever weapon you choose. If you choose a Maverick then you have to lock it on, but if you use gun / rockets / dumb bombs, then obviously you don't.

 

What is an ATTACK point?

It is a type of waypoint, shown on the map as a triangle instead of the usual circle, in the Mission Editor(ME). As you fly your route it does not appear any different to other waypoints to you as a pilot. But used in conjunction with the TARGET button in the ME, it will cause targets to be diamond'ed. If the aircraft is an AI(computer flown) one, then it tells the AI when to begin an attack and what to attack.

 

Do you have to reach a particular waypoint before you can lock on?

No, but generally the mission designer will have chosen a particular waypoint (near to the target) as an attack waypoint. Some missions might have several attack waypoints if there are several targets. Before you fly a mission, look at the map, remember which waypoint is the attack waypoint (triangle) so you know where to start looking for the targets you are tasked to destroy.

In one of the A-10 training missions there is the diamond to show you where to drop your weapon load but in the other using cannon and rockets there is no diamond. As I said above, sometimes the mission has been designed so there is a diamond, sometimes not.

 

Is there a difference between targets and mission goals?

The SUCCESS / FAIL at the end of a mission is caused by having used the Mission Editor to set MISSION GOALS with the icon on the left of the screen that looks like a sniper sight.

Not all goals are that some target be DESTROYED, some goals are that a unit, group or target SURVIVES, this enables misson designers to make missions where you have to protect friendly units or defend a base.

Having these as seperate actions means that a mission can have SUCCESS/FAIL goals set without necessarily having targets diamond'ed. Two examples - mbot's UrbanThunder which has an attack waypoint, but no TARGETs assigned

 

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=9039

 

also my Smerch Hunt mission, which has no attack waypoint at all...

 

http://www.lockonfiles.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&cid=61&lid=36&ttitle=A-10_Smerch_Hunt#dldetails

 

Hope this helps..........

[pauldy]

I never knew the Diamond represents the Pave Penny "Function".

[topol-m]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply and for the links :thumbup: + rep BTW do you know if A-10C can track targets by itself?

Edited June 17, 2009 by topol-m

[GGTharos]

Yes, it can. It has a targeting pod and datalink.

[topol-m]

Yes, it can. It has a targeting pod and datalink.

 

Yep, but does the tageting pod allow to track more than one targets, or its the datalink thats making that possible?

[GGTharos]

I don't know enough about the pod to tell you - you can only designate one target at a time, but you might be able to track multiple (as long as they are close together)

[tflash]

A-10C has also SADL, which allows keeping track of identified enemy vehicles and greatly enhances SA, and is somewhat comparable to ABRIS functionality.

 

 

DCS:A-10C seems to explore some of this functionality, if I understand the Russian site:

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/index.php?end_pos=2320&scr=default&lang=ru

 

 

Yet another reason to eagerly await this next DCS title!!!!

[GGTharos]

About the only way they are comparable is this:

Both display map info

Both display dlink targets

 

After that is where the similarities end. ABRIS has nothing, NOTHING on SADL ;)

SADL simply blows the Ka-50's system away, hands down, without even breaking a sweat.

 

A-10C has also SADL, which allows keeping track of identified enemy vehicles and greatly enhances SA, and is somewhat comparable to ABRIS functionality.

[tflash]

GG, do you think DCS will cover some of SADL's indeed mind-blowing capabilities?

[GGTharos]

I think it will, with the exception of classified things (most likely those will relate almost completely, but not entirely to ECM/ECCM to prevent jamming of the datalink)

 

The reason SADL is so much better isn't really about mind-blowing capabilities or anything like that. In the end, a datalink system trades a bunch of coordinate numbers and an ID/Type number (and perhaps a little more info depending on your system) - all systems do that.

The trick here is that some systems offer far more automation fusion than others.

 

To realize why the F-15C's radar system was 'mind blowing' in comparison to the MiG-29's, all you have to see is that the antenna elevation on the F-15C is handled automatically or semi-automatically, while in the MiG-29A you had to get your hand off the throttle and reach to dial a knob to the desired elevation (Mind you the MiG-29A's systems did not entirely lack automation, they just had far less of it - and they had the laser eye death vision too - hold onto 2 buttons on HOTAS with HMS and R-73 selected, and the missile would come off the rail the INSTANT the seeker reported a lock)

 

It's all about user interface and convenience.

Edited June 17, 2009 by GGTharos

[topol-m]

OK but isn`t the datalink sometimes confusing? I mean if there are 2 A-10 that are interchanging info, to see several potential targets on your MFD means you or the other A-10 should track these continuously and A-10 is not a heli to hover and observe sparsely deployed targets. If the targets are moving and their positions coordinates are not not constantly updated how are they displayed? I`m guessing you will either have old inaccurate coordinates or the target disappears from your MFD if no one is tracking it.

[GGTharos]

The display will show you last-known position, just like in the Ka-50. The target track will be updated if there is new data on it, otherwise the display may or may not clear it (depends on how your software is programmed). But realize that ground targets seldom move quickly if at all.

 

Also SADL doesn't just take data from other A-10's: It takes date from FAC, AFAC, potentially tanks/APCs on ground, Link-16 (if there is a bridge available) and link 16 means data from AWACS, JSTARS, F-15's, F-15's, Patriots, AEGIS systems, Sentinel systems, etc. It is not just an A-10 to A-10 link.

[topol-m]

Does the SADL A-10C uses include info about air targets?

[pauldy]

That A-10C feature looks nifty.

[Boberro]

I like this flying turtle more and more. Can't wait to get and do with him nasty things :D

[topol-m]

I like this flying turtle more and more. Can't wait to get and do with him nasty things :D

 

Pervert :)

[GGTharos]

Yes, it does.

 

Does the SADL A-10C uses include info about air targets?

[topol-m]

Yes, it does.

 

Now thats a very important feature that can be used to avoid air threats.

[GGTharos]

Yep, correct - or help lead them into SAM zones, etc etc :)

[topol-m]

Now we have to wait to see to what degree the datalink will be recreated in DCS: A-10C, but i got a feeling it could make missions/campaigns very dynamic and diverse. :music_whistling: