Fuel Management 101 OR How is it supposed to work?

[Booka42]

Hi all,

Thanks to peachmonkey (yes, it is all your fault my friend) I bit the bullet and bought the Anton.

First things first, this thing is amazing.

So I dove deep and read everything I could find (first the Chucks guide of course, DCS Manual, Original Manuals [if available, they are hard to get]) and watched this guys amazing youtube Videos on the FW190:

 

Now I have a question regarding fuel management.

According to Chucks guide if you have auxiliary tanks and/or a drop tank you are supposed to block the front tank until the after tank is getting emptied.

This is done by using the (red) fuel lever on the left side of the cockpit. I don't think that's correct (more on that later).

First you can see the text called "Pumpen Prüfung". I speak german and that means "Pump Test". Also in the original Manual this is called "Brandhahn" which more or less translates to "Fuel cut-off". So I dont think this is actually used for blocking tanks at all but only for emergencys (and tests of course).

It is also red! This normally means "Keep your hands off", furthermore the colour for fuel related stuff in the cockpit is yellow, not red.

The manual also talks about using the corresponding CBs for fuel pumps on the right side of the cockpit. Namely shutting off the front tank booster pump when using aux or drop tanks. The DCS Manual for the Anton is not quite clear on how and when to do that (or maybe I am just dumb).

Today I tested this and no matter what I do the front tank always empties, I found no way of blocking it. Neither the red handle nor the CBs did anything to that regard. Is this a bug or feature and that's how it's supposed to work?

Can somebody help me out here or test this?

I know the FW190 was one of the first Warplanes to actually reduce workload for the pilot by design - a lot of stuff is automatic.

 

Best regards and thanks for the help,

Booka42

Edited December 16, 2024 by Booka42

[peachmonkey]

I won't comment on the German language or the manual, however I can tell you how it works in DCS:
 

- the top most position of the lever: Both tanks are open

- second from the top:  front tank is closed, rear tank is open + Aux is open, + drop tank is open

- third position from the top:  rear/aux/drop tanks is/are closed, only front tank is open

 

The CB switches for the tanks don't seem to do anything anymore. The used to work, but now if you turn them all off the fuel gets delivered anyway. ED is not paying attention to this module anymore, so don't hold your breath on having ED fix it.

Edited December 16, 2024 by peachmonkey

[Tophatter14]

Excellent video - thanks for sharing. 

[Booka42]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb peachmonkey:

I won't comment on the German language or the manual, however I can tell you how it works in DCS:
 

- the top most position of the lever: Both tanks are open

- second from the top:  front tank is closed, rear tank is open + Aux is open, + drop tank is open

- third position from the top:  rear/aux/drop tanks is/are closed, only front tank is open

 

The CB switches for the tanks don't seem to do anything anymore. The used to work, but now if you turn them all off the fuel gets delivered anyway. ED is not paying attention to this module anymore, so don't hold your breath on having ED fix it.

Thank you, the red lever seems to work for me now, maybe Chuck is correct here (sorry Chuck, how could I doubt you).

The CBs are a little mystery though as they should do something (according to the manual). At least you can't start the engine without them, so they kinda work.

I read that in the Dora you actually only use the CBs for fuel management, is that correct?

 

All in all I hope they add some stuff to the ww2 birds (and fix bugs). There is so much potential here.

[peachmonkey]

17 hours ago, Booka42 said:

Thank you, the red lever seems to work for me now, maybe Chuck is correct here (sorry Chuck, how could I doubt you).

The CBs are a little mystery though as they should do something (according to the manual). At least you can't start the engine without them, so they kinda work.

I read that in the Dora you actually only use the CBs for fuel management, is that correct?

 

All in all I hope they add some stuff to the ww2 birds (and fix bugs). There is so much potential here.

interesting about the CBs, I'll try them out again, thank you for the info!

Dora has it somewhat similar. It has:

- 3 CBs for forward/rear/aux tanks

- same lever under the dashboard for tank open/closed with exactly the same operation/outcomes as the A8.

[peachmonkey]

hi, @Booka42

so I looked in A8 manual that ED published with the module (https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/upload/iblock/b57/DCS_Fw_190_A-8_Flight_Manual_EN.pdf), and I think it clarifies the situation with the fuel pumps:

 

The electric pumps are booster pumps, hence once the engine starts, turning the pumps off does not stop the fuel supply.

However, the forward tank booster pump is needed to start the engine, as it's used specifically to pre-fill the engine with fuel:

If you watch the fuel pressure gauge you can observe the needle bouncing when trying to start the engine with or without booster pump running, i.e. without it running there's no fuel pressure. However, once it's running, you can turn the pump off and the pressure doesn't change.

The manual also mentions that these booster pumps are useful for preventing the vapor lock, I wonder if it's modeled (probably not), so another test to do is to get to 8,000 or 9,000 meters and play around with the CB switches there.

 

Edited December 19, 2024 by peachmonkey

[Booka42]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb peachmonkey:

hi, @Booka42

so I looked in A8 manual that ED published with the module, and I think it clarifies the situation with the fuel pumps:

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Thanks @peachmonkey, I also just read this. What I find confusing is page 102 and 103 in this very manual (those are the "Normal Procedures"), as the "fuel selector" (the red lever, right?) is almost always set to "Auf" i.e. "Open" and only the CBs for these booster pumps are used for fuel management. Or am I reading that wrong somehow?

They talk about the "fuel selector" on page 102 and call it "fuel shutoff valve" on page 103, are those two different things? They say to set the "fuel shut off valve" to "Open" ... I don't know any other fuel related thing in the Anton besides the red lever that can be set to "Open". This is just kinda inconsistent, I guess.

On page 57 they talk about the red lever and there is this paragraph:

"When flying with drop tanks, drop tank fuel should be used first. When the fuel inside the drop tank is exhausted, the fuel tank selector lever is set to “Auf” and the external drop tank fuel pump should be turned off."

They never say anywhere before that paragraph to set it "Vorne zu" or something like that, they just talk about setting it back to "Auf"

So yeah, maybe it's just that the manual is a work in progress or something like that. You are totally right about the function of the red lever in DCS though, it totally works as you (or Chucks guide) describe it.

So in the end that's how I'm gonna do it too - if it works it works. Might also be the real procedure.

I live in Berlin, so I might be able at some point to look at real documents regarding the Anton and find out more about the right procedures.

Nevertheless, this thing is now one of my favorite planes in DCS and probably ever, your where completely right.

[peachmonkey]

1 hour ago, Booka42 said:

Thanks @peachmonkey, I also just read this. What I find confusing is page 102 and 103 in this very manual (those are the "Normal Procedures"), as the "fuel selector" (the red lever, right?) is almost always set to "Auf" i.e. "Open" and only the CBs for these booster pumps are used for fuel management. Or am I reading that wrong somehow?

They talk about the "fuel selector" on page 102 and call it "fuel shutoff valve" on page 103, are those two different things? They say to set the "fuel shut off valve" to "Open" ... I don't know any other fuel related thing in the Anton besides the red lever that can be set to "Open". This is just kinda inconsistent, I guess.

On page 57 they talk about the red lever and there is this paragraph:

"When flying with drop tanks, drop tank fuel should be used first. When the fuel inside the drop tank is exhausted, the fuel tank selector lever is set to “Auf” and the external drop tank fuel pump should be turned off."

They never say anywhere before that paragraph to set it "Vorne zu" or something like that, they just talk about setting it back to "Auf"

So yeah, maybe it's just that the manual is a work in progress or something like that. You are totally right about the function of the red lever in DCS though, it totally works as you (or Chucks guide) describe it.

So in the end that's how I'm gonna do it too - if it works it works. Might also be the real procedure.

I live in Berlin, so I might be able at some point to look at real documents regarding the Anton and find out more about the right procedures.

Nevertheless, this thing is now one of my favorite planes in DCS and probably ever, your where completely right.

ED's manuals leave a lot to be desired.

As far as page 57, what they mean is:
- when you are flying with the Drop tank, you should empty it first before using the fuel from the forward tank.

- hence, when using a Drop tank, set the lever to "Vord Behalter Zu", i.e. second position from the top. In this position the fuel is used out of Aft and Drop tanks only. Monitor the fuel use from the drop tank by switching the fuel gauge to the right (i.e. monitoring rear tank). Once you see the needle moving it means the Drop tank is empty, and now it's sucking the fuel from the Aft tank. Exactly the same story goes for using the fuel from the Aux tank, i.e. if you have fuel in Aux tank, set the fuel lever to second position from the top (front tank closed), switch the fuel gauge to rear tank and monitor the needle, if it's starts moving = Aux fuel tank is empty

- once you see the rear tank fuel gauge needle is moving, you should re-open the Front tank by switching the fuel lever to the most top position "Auf". This way you're using the fuel from both front and rear/aft tank.

And them calling it a "fuel shut off valve", well, blame it on the Germans. They are they ones that called it backwards and in a negative form as "front shut off" and "rear shut off", instead of "rear tank" and "front tank" like in all allied planes, i.e. whatever you set it to that's where the fuel is coming from.