Tshark Posted December 21, 2024 Posted December 21, 2024 (edited) Found an interesting feedback effect in DCS, when flying in the Apache as a CP/G with a human pilot. Every time the human pilot input a trim hold, it moved my FFBeast. This of course causes my TADS to slew accordingly. The FFBeast is mapped as only as the RHG in the CP/G seat. My pilot friend is not using FFB. This does not occur with George acting as pilot. Edited December 21, 2024 by Tshark 9800X3D (5.21GHz Turbo), MSI RTX 4090 OC 24GB, ASUS ROG Strix X870E-E GAMING Motherboard, G. Skill Trident Z5 DDR5 RAM 96GB (2x48GB), Crucial P3 Plus 4TB PCIe Gen4 3D NAND NVMe M.2 SSD, Virpil Alpha Joystick with FFBeast FFB base, T-50CM3 Throttle, MFG Xwind rudder pedals, Pimax Crystal VR.
Raven (Elysian Angel) Posted December 21, 2024 Posted December 21, 2024 Good, that's what I would expect in a multi-crew aircraft If this were not the case, the transfer of control - for whichever reason - could end up being quite messy indeed. 1 Spoiler Ryzen 9 5900X | 64GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600 | Asus ProArt RTX 4080 Super | ASUS ROG Strix X570-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 960Pro 1TB NMVe | VR: Varjo Aero Pro Flight Trainer Puma | VIRPIL MT-50CM2 grip on VPForce Rhino with Z-curve extension | Virpil CM3 throttle | Virpil CP2 + 3 | FSSB R3L | VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip | Everything mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | TPR rudder pedals OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS graphics settings
corbu1 Posted December 21, 2024 Posted December 21, 2024 I have a VPForce Rhino FFB. haven‘t tried that with a human pilot, but I can confirm that George AI pilots control inputs have no effect on moving CPG controls. 1 DCS Version: 2.9.15.9408 Modules: UH-1H - SA342 - KA-50 BS3 - MI-24P - MI-8MTV2 - AH-64D - CH-47F - OH-58D - UH-60L(Mod, n.i.) - OH-6A(Mod, n.i.) - A-10CII - F-16C - F/A-18C - AJS37 - F-14 - MiG-21bis - JF-17 - Mirage F1 - MiG-29A - (prepurchase) - FC2024 -Combined Arms - Supercarrier - NTTR - Normandy2.0 - Channel - Persian Gulf - Syria - SA - Sinai - Afghanistan - Kola - Iraq - Cold War Germany — Waiting for: BO-105 - AH-1G/F(Mod) DCS-Client: 9800X3D, 64GB 6200, RTX3090, 1TB M2 NVMe(win10), 4TB M2 NVMe(DCS), VR VivePro2, PointCTRL, VaicomPro, Wacom Intuos S with VRK v2Beta DCS-DServer: 11600KF, 64GB 3600, GTX1080, 1TB M2 NVMe(win10), 2TB M2 NVMe(DCSDServer), DCS Olympus Simpit: NLR Flightsim Pro Cyclic: TM Warthog Grip with 30cm Extension + VPforce Rhino FFB FW Stick: TM Warthog Grip and Base, Throttle: TM Warthog Pedals: Komodo Sim. with Dampers Collective: VPC Rotorplus+AH-64D Grip Other: NLR HF8, Buttkicker (3*MiniConcert), TotalControls AH64D MPD‘s and EUFD, Alain Dufour’s AH-64 TEDAC, TM MFD, Streamdecks (1*32,3*15,1*6), VPC CP#1
Floyd1212 Posted December 22, 2024 Posted December 22, 2024 6 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said: Good, that's what I would expect in a multi-crew aircraft If this were not the case, the transfer of control - for whichever reason - could end up being quite messy indeed. I think if his cyclic were moving in relation to his human PLT, he would understand. He is saying the control he has bound as his TADS slew analog stick is what is moving, which in this case is a FFB joystick. 1
Raven (Elysian Angel) Posted December 22, 2024 Posted December 22, 2024 Yes of course but that's not DCS's fault, isn't it? Theoretically ED could implement a Special Option to disable that behaviour, but it is such an edge case scenario one could wonder what people would expect next? Tshark called it an "interesting feedback effect", and didn't ask for a fix. 1 Spoiler Ryzen 9 5900X | 64GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600 | Asus ProArt RTX 4080 Super | ASUS ROG Strix X570-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 960Pro 1TB NMVe | VR: Varjo Aero Pro Flight Trainer Puma | VIRPIL MT-50CM2 grip on VPForce Rhino with Z-curve extension | Virpil CM3 throttle | Virpil CP2 + 3 | FSSB R3L | VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip | Everything mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | TPR rudder pedals OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS graphics settings
Tshark Posted December 22, 2024 Author Posted December 22, 2024 (edited) For us it was easy to overcome, because the pilot is using springless cyclic and does not need trim hold. It is a problem for the CP/G if the pilot needs to use trim hold. I think the force feedback effects should only be applied to flight controls. In this case it is being applied to thumb stick axis on the grip (which I have mapped to the joystick X and Y axis). I originally had the FFB stick mapped to flight controls, but only with a switch modifier engaged. There is the reason the real Apache has LHG and RHG separate from flight controls. Even if the RHG is mapped to a thumbstick on the FFB grip, it is going to make it more difficult for the CP/G when the stick moves around. As FFB controllers become more mainstream this is going to be a problem. DCS needs to address this. Edited December 22, 2024 by Tshark 1 9800X3D (5.21GHz Turbo), MSI RTX 4090 OC 24GB, ASUS ROG Strix X870E-E GAMING Motherboard, G. Skill Trident Z5 DDR5 RAM 96GB (2x48GB), Crucial P3 Plus 4TB PCIe Gen4 3D NAND NVMe M.2 SSD, Virpil Alpha Joystick with FFBeast FFB base, T-50CM3 Throttle, MFG Xwind rudder pedals, Pimax Crystal VR.
granola1861 Posted December 25, 2024 Posted December 25, 2024 If I were to have a FFB cyclic then we would be in a pickle (BTW I'm Tsharks pilot). Currently, I just don't hit the trim button before setting attitude or rad alt hold like I would previously. Like Tshark said I have a springless stick that will hold position so we have a built-in workaround. I had been having serious issues holding a trimmed (attitude and alt hold) hover. Haven't tried since the latest patch that talks of SAS fixes but can't help but wonder if the FFB stick in front may be effecting the trim holds. I find that these holds accrue trim over time since resetting trim I notice an immediate flight attitude change. I'm hoping this was an unrelated bug that was just fixed. The fact is like previously stated, ED needs to address this. -Climber
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