topol-m Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Could someone explain what is actually happening with the scanned zone when we are moving up/down the TDC (target designator cursor) without passing in different range display mode. Let`s say we are in 20nm display and we move the TDC - we notice some change of scanned altitude on the scale on the left. Example in numbers: altitude 13150 feet/VSD in 20nm display mode - the min/max scanned altitude is 8000/19000feet at 10nm. If we switch to 40nm display min/max alt. we`ll be 3000/24000feet at 20nm. But if we stay at 20nm VSD display and move the TDS close to the top the alt. scanned scale will show data close to the one for 40nm. This is rather confusing. I have an explanation of the situation don`t know if i`m right. I`m guessin that actually the scanned zone for the given range is not changed by moving the TDS. The min/max scanned altitude is shown for the transition ranges (from 20nm to 21,22...40 when closing to the top of the VSD and from 20nm to 19,18...10 when closing to the bottom) an effect that is avoided by instantly increasing/decreasing ranges displayed by pressing "-", "+". If thats the case than the scanned zone should not be affected in the given range by moving the TDC, its just confusing as i have to be aware of its position and have to move it up/down to show me the min/max scanned altitude at the range i`m in at the moment. Also what possible use could i have of the data that`s showing me scanned altitude at ranges beyond my current range display - if i`m in 20nm display even if at 30nm there is a target the only way i can detect it is to switch from 20nm to 40nm display? :huh: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) Think about it this way ... your scan zone is a cone. This never changes, and you know that inside this cone, scanned altitude is smaller close to you and bigger away from you - because it is a cone, it becomes wider along its length. All the TDC does is show you what the height of the cone is at the distance you have set the TDC to. It does not actually change the scan zone at all. Edit: Now that I read what you wrote again ... Actually, check your display - when you move the TDC to the top, are you suddenly switching to the 40nm range? If not, you might be looking at a bug. What you are describing sounds really strange though - could you post screenshots maybe? Edited June 29, 2009 by GGTharos [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
104th_Crunch Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) Hi Topol, seems you are confused :) Okay here it goes, the TDC is showing you the lower and upper altitude of the radar beam in thousands of feet. These 2 numbers are shown at the left of the radar. As you move your TDC up and down in range these 2 numbers change, however, your radar does not change. The location of the TDC is simply showing you this information. In the picture below you see the side view of the radar beam with a 10 degree beam. It is narrow at the aircraft nose and wider as it goes into infinity. When you move the TDC you simply are displaying the altitude along the radar beam. In the pic below the TDC is at about 25M so the TDC is showing the altitude for the beam at 25M. Another example: AWACS calls, Bandit 320 for 30, Angels 20. So regardless of your altitude you move the TDC to a range of 30M, then you make sure the bottom number on the left is lower than angels 20 and the top number is over angels 20. If they are not adjust scan elevation accordingly. Image by Teka Teka Edited June 30, 2009 by Crunch
RedTiger Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Sorry for the drive-by response here instead of actually addressing the question, but these tutorials by Ironhand may help: http://flankertraining.com/ironhand/a2a.htm I know they helped me. :)
topol-m Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 Thanks guys for helping me find my mistake - i haven`t noticed that when you are changing range by moving the TDC it occupies the previous range mode limit - (if you change from 20 to 40 it is positioned at 20). That explains the whole thing. So it turns to be a very usefull thing giving you info about altitudes scanned at different distances in current range display. :thumbup: Yeah i know that site, RedTiger.I`ve watched all the videos there. Very useful. BTW an OT question: shouldn`t we be able to increase/decrease the vertical angle of scan? AFAIK the APG-70 can do that (if i remember correctly it can use 3 vert. angle scan settings), don`t know about the APG-63. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 A little history: APG-63(v1) has a lot in common with the APG-70. Specifically it was modernized to APG-70 standards to save on money (APG-70 had certain problems relating to using unleaded solder which caused 'tin whiskers' to appear in the presence of strong EM fields - this cause other problems). The APG-63 can scan two, three, four, six or eight bars IIRC - you only get a 4-bar scan in LOMAC. Reducing the number of bars gives you faster updates on a target, increasing them obviously increases the volume scanned at the expense of time required between updates. you'll also probably notice that TWS-bugged targets appear as if locked in STT. This is not correct behavior. BTW an OT question: shouldn`t we be able to increase/decrease the vertical angle of scan? AFAIK the APG-70 can do that (if i remember correctly it can use 3 vert. angle scan settings), don`t know about the APG-63. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
104th_Crunch Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Yeah, in Lock On all radars in BVR mode are at 2.5 degree in elevation x 4 bars = 10 degrees total.
topol-m Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 Thanks for the info. Any chance to include such capabilities in the update? Doesn`t sound like a lot of work but the result will be great. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
topol-m Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 Another OT question not to start a new thread about: why sometimes my radar when in STT mode (not tested in TWS) breaks lock resulting in waisted aim-7? I`ve experienced this several times mostly at distances about 10nm. And the target was close to the center of the hud so the radar should have no troubles maintaining stable lock. :huh: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Thanks for the info. Any chance to include such capabilities in the update? Doesn`t sound like a lot of work but the result will be great. I don't think so and - yeah, in this case it is a lot of work. Another OT question not to start a new thread about: why sometimes my radar when in STT mode (not tested in TWS) breaks lock resulting in waisted aim-7? I`ve experienced this several times mostly at distances about 10nm. And the target was close to the center of the hud so the radar should have no troubles maintaining stable lock. :huh: Most often it is because the bandit has gone into the notch (perpendicular to the radar beam in a look-down situation). [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
topol-m Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 Most often it is because the bandit has gone into the notch (perpendicular to the radar beam in a look-down situation). Any strategies to avoid that? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Get to a lower altitude than him - this is the only way. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Boberro Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Finally I know how this weird for me F-15's radar works. Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D ಠ_ಠ ツ
topol-m Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Finally I know how this weird for me F-15's radar works. Yeah, its more complex than the russian ones at least in the game, but gives a hell more info. And the TWS is nice though difficult to use against more than 2 targets (requires playing a lot with the radar cone to keep them tracked). Ok continuing with the OT questions ;) If there are several ECM sources and a target thats not using ECM or is close enough to be locked how am i suppose to lock on it as it is hiding among the numerous false targets the ECM creates on my VSD? This got to be the most annoying thing for me. Sometimes i see it for miles but when i try to lock on it i lock the ECM source instead, so unlock try to lock on it again but i lock on other ECM source :mad: Thats why i`ll be happy when Yoda creates a mod for auto lock the first found target ;) The situation is so ridiculous sometimes that the target shoots at me and i still can`t lock on it. Gotta get me out of this mess :helpsmilie: Edited June 30, 2009 by topol-m [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 The real thing will adjust the radar cone automatically to keep some number of targets in view, but the priority target will be ... prioritized. Also better ways of choosing the target are used in the real aircraft than just clicking it, IIRC. In addition one thing that's not implemented in LO is that the length of the target vector represents target speed ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
topol-m Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 The real thing will adjust the radar cone automatically to keep some number of targets in view, but the priority target will be ... prioritized. Also better ways of choosing the target are used in the real aircraft than just clicking it, IIRC. In addition one thing that's not implemented in LO is that the length of the target vector represents target speed ;) Interesting features. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
104th_Crunch Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Topol, see Yoda's LRM for "traget step" in the F-15. It will step through contacts with one key press. You can install LRM local and use this feature :)
topol-m Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 Topol, see Yoda's LRM for "traget step" in the F-15. It will step through contacts with one key press. You can install LRM local and use this feature :) But will it work in single player too? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
topol-m Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 yes Ok it says: "Installation Clients/Players do not need to install anything, it's a server side mod!" How am i going to use it in single if i don`t install anything? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
104th_Crunch Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 "Clients/Players do not need to install anything, it's a server side mod!" That is when you have a server/client setup like over Hyperlobby or connecting by Direct IP. The client will use the settings from the host with LRM. If you copy all the files in the download to your own Lock On installation and replace the existing files (back up first) then you will have LRM working in single player on your install. All of the LRM changes will effect you as the human player but A.I. will be unaffected.
topol-m Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 ^^^ Thanks man. I`ll try this mod out. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
RedTiger Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 ^^^ Thanks man. I`ll try this mod out. I just downloaded it and finally gave it a try. It makes a world of difference. :thumbup:
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