NVIDIA 5 Series cards - Get your wallets ready boys and girls....

[LucShep]

1 hour ago, rapid said:

Well all I can say is this ....Another Nvidia  Paper launch! 

Hey, it's part of the tradition!  

 

[rapid]

2 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Hey, it's part of the tradition!  
 

 

LOL very true. I can see a few AIB's having the 5080 in Stock now.

[mikko.1842]

Nvidia making things easier for 4000 series customers. Low performance uplift, easy 5000 skip.

Edited January 31 by mikko.1842

[LucShep]

And on another note (), for those into this, here's Buildzoid's ramblings on the RTX5080 PCBs of AIB models:

(spoilers: it's not all rosy here either --- TDLW: conclusions at 1:06:41 time in the video)

 

Edited January 31 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

4 hours ago, LucShep said:

Hey, it's part of the tradition!  
 

 

Click-bait videos The 5-series launch is like the launch of every other graphics card. No surprises here…

I also can’t quite fathom why people feel the need for having things like this right away. Like standing in line for iPhones and such. The guy here of course just wants one so he can get views. Any normal person can just wait, it’s not so hard. 

[okopanja]

19 hours ago, okopanja said:

Gainward GeForce RTX 5080 Phoenix, graphic card is listed at 1169 Eur in Germany.

Not in stock, others easily 30-40% more.

Ha ha ha, 1359 Eur, and you still can not order...

If you wish you can actually order for meager amount:

2.462,41 - 2.944,85 €

LOL

[LucShep]

34 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Ha ha ha, 1359 Eur, and you still can not order...

If you wish you can actually order for meager amount:

2.462,41 - 2.944,85 €

LOL

 Holy.......!

Here in Portugal the few ones were imediately sold (like, in seconds).
There are a couple of models on search engine that we can still try to get from a certain store in Spain, but then I'm not so sure about stock.
And then prices are still..... HEH!
 

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Edited January 31 by LucShep

[okopanja]

3 minutes ago, LucShep said:

 Holy.......!

Here in Portugal the few ones were imediately sold (like, in seconds).
There are a couple of models we can still try to get from a certain store in Spain, but then I'm not so sure about stock. And then prices are stil.... HEH 

 

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Looks like even reverse-scalping makes sense. Buy at lowest price sell whet the new generation do(n't) show up on release.

So the fact is that majority compares this to 3090 launch, indicates that its mostly them wanting to replace.

[Dogmanbird]

poverty v premium versions here in aus

just nuts!   Considering australias economic situation, I'd doubt the stores would keep more than just a few in stock

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Edited January 31 by Dogmanbird

[SharpeXB]

Do some countries just not have any legitimate retailers?

[LucShep]

46 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Do some countries just not have any legitimate retailers?

AFAIK, GPU manufacturers usually don't sell directly to countries outside North America (USA) and Eastern Asia. 

I can't speak for other Continents, but in Europe (specifically in the E.U.) there's mandatory taxes (VAT) from 17% to 27% (depending on country) on the base price of product, and then there are also import taxes (paid in customs, product held until that's paid) for some of these products if brought abroad, which can be pretty heavy.

You may now understand why some of us have been so vocal in protest, about the demanding nature of DCS, and where some of the problems are and/or how the problems could be fixed. 
There's a lot of people who love the game to a point that they feel impelled to invest what they shouldn't, when that could be somewhat fixed for all - if ED gave optimizations priority #1 and the "real" requirements became lower.  It would benefit everybody, DCS users and ED as well. 
But, instead, we see this growing necessity of hardware upgrades to reach a certain desired quality point, when the prices for that become outside the realm of "feasable". 
Blame is on the GPU manufacturers and expectations of users, of course, but it is as it is and it's not that good.
 

Edited January 31 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

5 minutes ago, LucShep said:

AFAIK, GPU manufacturers usually don't sell directly for countries outside North America (USA) and Eastern Asia.

In the US you won’t need to buy direct from the manufacturer in order to get any of these graphics cards at MSRP. When the rush dies down they’ll be available at retail stores and Amazon for the same price. Aren’t there stores like this in other countries? There are of course regional price differences due to exchange rates and VAT or whatever. 

Edited January 31 by SharpeXB

[LucShep]

8 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

In the US you won’t need to buy direct from the manufacturer in order to get any of these graphics cards at MSRP. When the rush dies down they’ll be available at retail stores and Amazon for the same price. Aren’t there stores like this in other countries? There are of course regional price differences due to exchange rates and VAT or whatever. 

Noone sells GPUs close to MSRP in Europe since the pandemic, when prices went crazy and never got back to normal. The Dollar-to-Euro difference also has to do with it.

You may have the odd (bad) example of the lowest spec variant of a certain GPU model, which may sell closer to MSRP, but that's never anywhere near what you see Nvidia claiming for FE models, not even close.
 

Edited January 31 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

16 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Noone sells GPUs close to MSRP in Europe since the pandemic

Which MSRP? The US one or the regional one? I can’t imagine those would be the same. See like when the hype goes away all these here will sell at their US$ MSRP same as the direct price  

 

Edited January 31 by SharpeXB

[LucShep]

10 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Which MSRP? The US one or the regional one? I can’t imagine those would be the same. See like when the hype goes away all these here will sell at their US$ MSRP same as the direct price  

AFAIK, it's always based in the MSRP (US) claimed by the manufacturer (Nvidia, AMD, Intel) plus taxes of the specific Country.

And no, hype goes away and stock gets finally sorted, but prices usually remain, bar any surprises (such as discounts and price fixes by the manufacturer).
Take the 4000-series of Nvidia, for instances, they've maintained their price (actually increased again recently) across the two(+) years they've been sold here.
 

[SharpeXB]

PS it’s really hard to compare regional prices and economies because there are so many underlying differences. Yeah at first glance it might seem like Americans are rolling in cash and can buy everything easily and don’t pay any taxes. But we are also on our own financially compared to many other economies. In the US people have to pay for their own healthcare, pay or borrow money for an education. Medical debt is a thing and student load debt can be ruinous sometimes reaching into the $100Ks. We have to fund our own retirement and so on. Things that in other countries are payed for by all those taxes. I’m not trying to get into politics or imply one system is better than the other. But there’s a reality behind those seemingly small sticker prices.

[LucShep]

47 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

PS it’s really hard to compare regional prices and economies because there are so many underlying differences. Yeah at first glance it might seem like Americans are rolling in cash and can buy everything easily and don’t pay any taxes. But we are also on our own financially compared to many other economies. In the US people have to pay for their own healthcare, pay or borrow money for an education. Medical debt is a thing and student load debt can be ruinous sometimes reaching into the $100Ks. We have to fund our own retirement and so on. Things that in other countries are payed for by all those taxes. I’m not trying to get into politics or imply one system is better than the other. But there’s a reality behind those seemingly small sticker prices.

Noone is contesting that, what you say makes sense.
Just like saying the growing inflation or, even better, the reliance on the main (two) chip makers and their increasingly higher waffer pricing (TSMC mostly) is directly related to these high prices on GPUs, considerably more than years past.

The thing here with GPU prices, and to make an analogy...
What would you think if, all of a sudden, ED increased prices of any and all upcoming module to, say, 250$ or more, far higher than any past and current modules have been, because (I don't know, just imagining) "the new 3D software that we now have to use, to make these, is much more expensive" ?    Would you accept that and swallow the pill?

In this case, my firm guess is that 99% of the userbase would keep using what they already have and skip those, while the 1% elite would go for it just like they do for these overpriced GPUs, and everything else hardware or controllers. And same will happen with these GPUs - the gap between the "haves" and "have nots" will be further increased.
 

Edited January 31 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

The thing here with GPU prices, and to make an analogy...
What would you think if, all of a sudden, ED increased prices of any and all upcoming module to, say, 250$ or more, far higher than any past and current modules have been, because (I don't know, just imagining) "the new 3D software that we now have to use, to make these, is much more expensive" ?    Would you accept that and swallow the pill?

Well clearly Nvidia, like most any company knows where to price their products in order to be the most profitable. At $100K apiece they’d make zero money and at $0 they’d also make zero money. Their competitors prices also aren’t much different. The prices are indeed quite insane and yet even at that level they fly off the shelves.

The discussion keeps circling around the top 1% users 5090, the average graphics card isn’t really so egregious. 

[Aapje]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

And same will happen with these GPUs - the gap between the "haves" and "have nots" will be further increased.

Except the haves will be in trouble too, because games are very expensive to make, so unless the games switch to a whale model where they expect the few haves to pay way more, the game companies will still have to appeal to the have nots. So then the games will be held back by whatever they can afford.

Arguably the games industry is now using temporal upscaling and frame gen as a crutch to try to keep the people with lower end hardware buying the newer games.

Edited January 31 by Aapje

[LucShep]

3 hours ago, Aapje said:

Except the haves will be in trouble too, because games are very expensive to make, so unless the games switch to a whale model where they expect the few haves to pay way more, the game companies will still have to appeal to the have nots. So then the games will be held back by whatever they can afford.

Arguably the games industry is now using temporal upscaling and frame gen as a crutch to try to keep the people with lower end hardware buying the newer games.

Precisely. And that's why this is a much bigger problem than most think. It's all intertwined with current and future games development.  

Take the recent Indiana Jones game, for instances. To have a Ray-Tracing capable GPU is a requirement to use it. Others will follow it.
Did anyone stop to think how bad RT goes on an Nvidia 2060/2070/2080/3060/4060 (or equivalent AMD GPUs for that matter)?
Not to mention how many don't have an RT capable GPU?

Or then, the soon-to-become-ubiquitous UE5, which so many game developers are adopting lately.
When it runs like crap in lower-tier and older GPUs (and reducing to lowest settings makes them look far worse than decade plus aged games). 

So, for people who want to still be a part of modern pc-gaming, it's getting to that point when there's the writting on the wall.
And then feel forced to make the GPU upgrade that they were avoiding, because the one they got won't cut it very soon.
Now, that's all normal, it was always like that.  But then..... the prices.

A bigger problem than games being held back because of them is, what if all those people simply can't afford that upgrade?
Modern PC gaming (and with all the planned upcoming new titles and sequels), does it become an elite-like hobby?  It can't sustain itself for too long like that. 

 

Edited January 31 by LucShep
added link to other topic that may better relate to this subject

[SharpeXB]

When worrying about the game industry just remember half the market is using consoles and only 1% is using hardware like the 4090. It’s easy to get a skewed impression of what the average player is when looking at a forum like this. 

[Aapje]

43 minutes ago, LucShep said:

A bigger problem than games being held back because of them is, what if all those people simply can't afford that upgrade?
Modern PC gaming (and with all the planned upcoming new titles and sequels), does it become an elite-like hobby?  It can't sustain itself for too long like that. 

I don't really worry about gaming as a hobby, as there are plenty of alternatives for people, like older games, indies, etc. But certain genres might suffer and the big studios definitely would feel the hurt. Although many studios are already doing their best to self-destruct.

[LucShep]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

When worrying about the game industry just remember half the market is using consoles and only 1% is using hardware like the 4090. It’s easy to get a skewed impression of what the average player is when looking at a forum like this. 

The consoles no longer control half the market.  At the start of the pandemic, maybe. But not since.

The XBOX recorded its worst ever yearly console sales numbers in 2024 (see here) and, so far, 2025 doesn't look like it's going to be better.
The Sony PS5Pro is a monumental failure, and overall PS5+PS5Pro sales numbers have been pretty weak lately. 

Both brands suffering due to high prices.
Most people now have 4K TVs and, with that, have higher standards for gaming. Thing is, for that, they need to shell out for the faster models (SeriesX at ~600€, PS5Pro at ~800€), because even in consoles, the newest games don't run all that well on the cheaper XBOX/PS base models.
It's not working. Traditionally, the user base of that market never expends that much.

PC gaming has grown and now surpassed the console market, and even console+handheld combined:  https://tech4gamers.com/pc-gaming-outpacing-consoles/

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

I don't really worry about gaming as a hobby, as there are plenty of alternatives for people, like older games, indies, etc. But certain genres might suffer and the big studios definitely would feel the hurt. Although many studios are already doing their best to self-destruct.

Well, yes and no.

Personally, me neither.  My collection of PC games is mostly comprised of older game titles.

But then we've all seen great game developer houses come and deliver, only to go bankrupt years after (or be absorbed and diluted by a bigger brand).
And it's a shame when that happens, leaving a "what if they didn't" nostalgia in the air.

I go back from a time when games were far cheaper (and easier) to produce, and passion or "substance" (a bit like we still see with ED for DCS) was the #1 reason to work for (or getting into) that business. 
If the concern is only the bottom line and quick buck, that #1 reason gets lost. And if it's further worsen by higher hardware requirements that most can't keep with, then it's a whole market waiting to implode on itself - one company at a time, followed by another.
 

Edited January 31 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

3 minutes ago, LucShep said:

The consoles no longer control half the market.

Ok so 47% = basically half. The point still remains. I don’t think customers are being priced out of the market by a single high priced piece of hardware that’s 1/2% of the total base. The average PC gamer is using a $300 graphics card. 

[LucShep]

Only now seen this

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Well clearly Nvidia, like most any company knows where to price their products in order to be the most profitable. At $100K apiece they’d make zero money and at $0 they’d also make zero money. Their competitors prices also aren’t much different. The prices are indeed quite insane and yet even at that level they fly off the shelves.

It is a part of that "1%" that took them off the shelves these last days. Those people do not represent a significant percentage of the total gaming market.
They just want you to think it is, so that you become a sheep and go along with that flock.

The market is really that humongous (see Steam online numbers, at the many thousands at any given time) and then check again what's average hardware (Steam survey).
It's not very common to see people shell out 900.00+ USD/EUR for a graphics card, it really isn't.
 

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

The discussion keeps circling around the top 1% users 5090, the average graphics card isn’t really so egregious. 

It isn't egregious?  Have you even tried to game on an "average" GPU, a low to mid range modern GPU?
You have no idea do you?  Try to build a few systems with them, and see how horrible most get to be with latest AAA game titles, and how (bad) they run with DCS. 

The most sold "average" graphics card is an RTX4060, which costs around 350.00€ in Europe... a friggin lowly 8GB 128-bit membus GPU that shouldn't even exhist at this point and, again, grossly overpriced. Yet, it sells because the common unaware gamer thinks "it's gotta be an NWEEEDEEA" and that's as far as they can go.
And on that, I wonder if the 5060 is going to be another POS again. 
 

Edited January 31 by LucShep