Jester cant see targets beyond 10 miles

[SpecteRED]

I constantly encounter the problem that Jester doesn't see a target closer than 10 miles on the radar. And it doesn't matter how the target is directed (from me/to me). The screenshot shows that the target is 18 miles away and I can't see it - scan in the center. After that, I tried to descend to 1000-1500 feet, but it didn't help. In this case, the Jester detected the target at a distance of 9-10 miles. Then why is there a 50-mile range scale on the radar? its useless... I don't even understand why the scale is 25)) 

Is Jester that bad or the radar? or maybe both?))

[Zabuzard]

Its mostly the radar. Try a bomber, from the side (not headon!), over water and put urself below it.

You will notice that you can spot it from like 50-100 nm now.

Theres a lot of factors reducing your odds and especially a fighter aircraft approached head-on will have a very small RCS. If you then add clutter and bad positioning into the mix you will not find them early enough.

Practice is key! If you need help, please send a track and we can have a look

Edited March 20 by Zabuzard

[SpecteRED]

Sadly, because in most cases the fight goes headon. And my radar doesn't see anything, but the enemy is launching the aim-9... which means that the distance is very small. Therefore, I have to use only boreside mode for aim-7 or use only aim-9 without radar.

[Zabuzard]

19 minutes ago, SpecteRED said:

Sadly, because in most cases the fight goes headon. And my radar doesn't see anything, but the enemy is launching the aim-9... which means that the distance is very small. Therefore, I have to use only boreside mode for aim-7 or use only aim-9 without radar.

Right. Not sure what to tell you, this is how the radar in the F-4E worked real life.

But again, possibly there are some things you can do to increase your odds while still going head-on. So a track file would be great

[Yannick Pancake]

It is even possible to survive an Engagement with the F-14 in the Nevada Map Quick Mission against an F-14 and even shoot it down. But it comes down to good SA and usage of the AI AWACS + understanding of the APQ-120

[Karon]

18 hours ago, SpecteRED said:

I constantly encounter the problem that Jester doesn't see a target closer than 10 miles on the radar. And it doesn't matter how the target is directed (from me/to me). The screenshot shows that the target is 18 miles away and I can't see it - scan in the center. After that, I tried to descend to 1000-1500 feet, but it didn't help. In this case, the Jester detected the target at a distance of 9-10 miles. Then why is there a 50-mile range scale on the radar? its useless... I don't even understand why the scale is 25)) 

Is Jester that bad or the radar? or maybe both?))

This question resembles a lot the initial critiques of the F-14's Jester, which were caused mostly by a lack of understanding of the avionics and Tomcat systems.

So, since you said Jester did not see the target, could you spot it on the radar instead?

Btw, the 50nm scale is sometimes barely enough. A lot depends on the conditions you are facing.

[Dragon1-1]

11 hours ago, SpecteRED said:

Sadly, because in most cases the fight goes headon. And my radar doesn't see anything, but the enemy is launching the aim-9... which means that the distance is very small. Therefore, I have to use only boreside mode for aim-7 or use only aim-9 without radar.

Welcome to the jungle (or rather, the aircraft that fought over one).  This is just one of the things the pilots complained about in Vietnam. 50 or even 100NM range scale was the result of wishful thinking and testing in optimum conditions. Against a tiny Vietnamese MiG, it wasn't nearly that good, not that you were allowed to shoot it without VID even if you did get a lock. Now add random missile failures, and imagine those are your only weapons. You'd quickly realize just why they added the gun. Your only recourse was that the enemy couldn't launch at you from ahead, because PAVN didn't have radar guided missiles (nor was their radar any better), and all aspect heaters weren't a thing yet.

The Phantom's radar is, like most radars on 3rd generation fighters, an FCR first and foremost. The 4th gens have no problem using their radars to search the airspace, but the Phantom's radar is primarily there to guide Sparrows, and its ability to search for targets is not impressive. At the time, AWACS and GCI would be charged with that.

[SpecteRED]

It's just that sometimes it's strange that I (Jester) don't see a target on the radar, even if it's already closer than the aim7 launch range) So I'm thinking of not taking them with me at all. But I get it, guys, radar really isn't this plane's strong suit. All hope for aim9)

 

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, SpecteRED said:

So I'm thinking of not taking them with me at all. 

Many a Vietnam era Phantom jock had those thoughts, too.  Especially when it came to the earlier versions, which were unreliable. The Sidewinder was a favorite for a reason, even if they still grumbled about its reliability, but that's more due to a hot, humid Vietnamese jungle doing a number on electronics. Also worth noting, the F-4E in particular has a tiny radar antenna, because they had to fit the gun in somewhere. Not sure how it compared to F-4D, but the USN Phantoms had a much better radar, and a bigger nose to hold the antenna (and no gun).

All I can say, try looking up instead of down (radars of the era hate ground clutter), and maybe try to fiddle with radar settings. I hope Jester will be able to manage the radar in a somewhat more sophisticated way later on. In general, though, try to account for the fact you will probably get tally before you get radar contact. That's just how it is, and why the ACM radar modes are such great help. If you're flying the Phantom for air to air, you will be dogfighting, unless you're shooting down bombers flying in straight line (admittedly, the designers' intended use case). When USN figured this out, TOPGUN was born. USAF took a bit longer, but they eventually came up with Red Flag.

[sirrah]

Thanks for this thread (and the answers )

I felt completely incompetent yesterday, when I had totally mixed results trying to get Jester to lock on targets. I just couldn't at all get low flying helo's locked. And with only aim-7's on board I was really showing how useless I was in the F4 on a public MP server..

This thread make me feel a bit better 

 

(I purchased the F4 a few weeks ago and now I'm in love with it. Even though I still suck in it)

[Dragon1-1]

Yeah, low flying helos are right out, the Phantom is a very poor choice for fighting them. Sidewinders or gun, but both of those have drawbacks, and a well flown helo will bite you back if you try that. No 3rd gen fighter can be expected to do well here (sure enough, you don't hear many Vietnam stories of MiGs pestering the Hueys), the helo will get lost in ground clutter. Effectively fighting helos in a fast jet, even modern 4th gens, is far from an easy matter.

[SgtPappy]

On 3/21/2025 at 3:44 PM, SpecteRED said:

It's just that sometimes it's strange that I (Jester) don't see a target on the radar, even if it's already closer than the aim7 launch range) So I'm thinking of not taking them with me at all. But I get it, guys, radar really isn't this plane's strong suit. All hope for aim9)

 

I strongly suggest you ask him to narrow scan, if you're not already. I've don't often encounter a problem and have found MiG-21's online at 20+ nm. Additionally, bind some coarse and/or fine gain controls from the back seat to the front to push Jester in the right direction. I will sometimes, though not too often, put gain up especially at higher altitudes so he can find something then he'll focus on it and change the gain accordingly.

 

Edited March 24 by SgtPappy