Fps loss 50% near water/sea and drawing of fences

[MorgothNL]

On 4/22/2025 at 8:55 AM, Spicysauced said:

I did some testing too, and for me this is also the guaranteed stutter zone. 
Around this north most 'island' the FPS drop is very consistent in often in all directions.

The distance from this zone where the FPS drop starts is not consistent for me.

Sometimes I get the drop when looking at this direction at 80-90NM. But sometimes it happens starting as close as 20NM. And also anything in between... or even FPS drop in the range 60-90NM, then no drop from 60-30NM and then again drop starting at 30NM and closer. Whenever the FPS drop does happen, it is when looking in the direction of the mentioned 'stutter zone' on the image. 


EDIT:

Some more testing tells me that not all modules are affected equally. I didn't try them all but for example the F1EE seems to be heavily impacted while the M2000 never seems to get the issue.
Also, after a bunch of reslotting and jumping between modules, the FPS drop does eventually go away even when I reslot in the F1EE.

Also, once you get it to be fixed by reslotting etc, it stays fixed it seems until you load into another map etc. So seems that whatever is causing it, does get loaded into RAM/cache or whatever and once it is loaded, it is fine.

Edited April 25 by MorgothNL

[Raven434th]

I noticed this map tanks as well.... on a server while flying in an apache.... it dropped to 9 fps!!! at one point...I have a rysen 7600x amd cpu...32 gig of ram and a 12 gig amd video card. This map needs some attention.

Edited April 26 by Raven434th

[Kiwi_Viper]

very strange i did pritty much same as your track flight Spicy on older drivers 572.70 and got some stuttering , not as bad as yours but it was there, changed back to my normal 572.83 which for me are stable as a rock and the same route stuttering totally gone? i wonder if its a driver vram thing .

now i fly where ever in the north end no problems what so ever fps i have capped in dcs to 60 running headset at 120hz (so half refresh rates) frames times now are pritty much a flat line at around 16ms only time i see micro stutters is in berlin but thats to be expected with the insane detail right there, i know those drivers have been causing problems for some tho.

[Barthek]

6 hours ago, Kiwi_Viper said:

very strange i did pritty much same as your track flight Spicy on older drivers 572.70 and got some stuttering , not as bad as yours but it was there, changed back to my normal 572.83 which for me are stable as a rock and the same route stuttering totally gone? i wonder if its a driver vram thing .

now i fly where ever in the north end no problems what so ever fps i have capped in dcs to 60 running headset at 120hz (so half refresh rates) frames times now are pritty much a flat line at around 16ms only time i see micro stutters is in berlin but thats to be expected with the insane detail right there, i know those drivers have been causing problems for some tho.

Thank you for posting this. After installing this particular driver, my problem seems to be gone on my end.

[JNR231]

6 часов назад, Kiwi_Viper сказал:

very strange i did pritty much same as your track flight Spicy on older drivers 572.70 and got some stuttering , not as bad as yours but it was there, changed back to my normal 572.83 which for me are stable as a rock and the same route stuttering totally gone? i wonder if its a driver vram thing .

now i fly where ever in the north end no problems what so ever fps i have capped in dcs to 60 running headset at 120hz (so half refresh rates) frames times now are pritty much a flat line at around 16ms only time i see micro stutters is in berlin but thats to be expected with the insane detail right there, i know those drivers have been causing problems for some tho.

For test switched to 572.83 - drops did not disappear fully, but now it out to be a very interesting effect - if drops appears (now I only caught them when quick changing views via F2/F7/F11 or apps change via Alt+Tab (not always)), I switch to another application and go back to DCS - the drops disappear until the next views/apps change (probably F10 must have same effect). Works not perfect - sometimes it takes three or four Alt+Tab switch, but atleast now I have a temporary fix. Thanks for post!

[Kiwi_Viper]

cool glad it helped you just have to be careful that driver for some is a nightmare but ive had 0 issues it might be just system dependent or sensitive to problems but its definitely worth a shot, i keep messing with settings and let ya all  know if i Strick any issues.only other ting im thinking of doing is ditching Nvidia app its a bit unstable yet

[Spicysauced]

5 hours ago, JNR231 said:

Works not perfect - sometimes it takes three or four Alt+Tab switch

The question is, would that have helped on your original drivers too. We can only go into the driver related direction, if with your original drivers, that would not have helped. Then we would have an indication of something in newer drivers causing a performance degradation.
So:
572.83 - 4 x ALT TAB causes performance to go back up
i.e. 576.15 - 4 x ALT TAB does nothing

I am still convinced that it's a map issue, because even IF the outcome is as described above, performance on ALL other maps is still fine/normal, with no alt tabbing needed. Also, a lot of people have been narrowing it down to the norther part of the map, including myself. So, logically, if the south is completely fine (like other maps) but then suddenly in the north your driver begins to matter, it would still point to a map related bug. Very likely a texture thing, thats using way more vram than expected/needed. A rougue grass texture that has been used double, on top of each other by accident, as an example.

Edited April 27 by Spicysauced

[Barthek]

Ok, I was too optimistic. I've just tried 572.83 in multiplayer environment. My fps again went from 120 to 29 only by looking to the north. This is ridiculous - other folks from my squadron don't report that problem at all.

[Spicysauced]

22 minutes ago, Barthek said:

Ok, I was too optimistic. I've just tried 572.83 in multiplayer environment. My fps again went from 120 to 29 only by looking to the north. This is ridiculous - other folks from my squadron don't report that problem at all.

Ridiculous indeed. I am still failing to see commonalities of the affected systems. They seem to widely differ. Everything from a 3060 up to a 4090, 32 and 64 gb, even a person with 128 gb complained under my video. Also the processors seem to differ, AMD as well as Intel systems are affected. So as a conclusion, I don't think it's related to a specific sytem component.

Possible reasons why your mates think they aren't affected (just off the top of my head):
- They werent far enough north
- They were up north but only looked south, then died and only played a short amount of time (for example)
- They are playing on very low settings, masking the problem. The FPS would still dip, but only from, say, 200 to 60-ish
- They are "immune" to FPS dips, not being bothered. I've seen several people, especially VR users, saying "Yeah I'm fine with like 45 FPS". That could play a role.
Quote from the forums 

I've finally managed to get a reasonably stable 45FPS in multiplayer and would like to share my experience with you

All this and more could play a role. At this point, I think everyone is affected, but they either didn't notice or aren't bothered. I'm of course happy to be convinced of the opposite.

[Spicysauced]

Another try.

Could we test the following?

Navigate to

\YourDCSFolder\Config\graphics.lua

Make a backup of that file.
Then in that file, navigate to

Precaching =
{
    around_camera = 50000;
    around_objects = 10000;
    around_types = {"world", "point"};
    preload_types = {"map", "world", "mission"};

Change the values to

Precaching =
{
    around_camera = 10000;
    around_objects = 5000;
    around_types = {"world", "point"};
    preload_types = {"map", "world", "mission"};

That reduced the precaching values around objects and camera, as it says on the tin. It's independent from preload radius in the options menu. Changing these values does not break Integrity Check.

I have limited time to test, but I quickly hopped on Contention and saved about 7 GB of RAM with no stuttering in the north, but that was just one test and does not mean much. Also, sadly, DCS's engine always reserves all available VRAM, meaning the actual VRAM usage is hidden from the user, but it is an attempt to reduce the system load independently of the options offered in the graphical user interface.

Could you test in scenarios that definitely caused stutter before and report back?

[Kiwi_Viper]

removing my fps cap i get more stutters in same places you were kind of , seems mostly on the border of grid UA and VA just west of Peenemunde set at 120fps which is headset refresh rate its definitely much more pronounced where as before with it set to 60fps it didnt really show up, i got the odd frame time spike but thats normal whern its loading textures as you travle to new areas,

those settings you have there made it more stuttery not as bigger ones but much more frequent kinda like a slow motion freeze frame but constant, setting it back tp 60fps helped but still there and even normandy map was bad and for me it never has been, i might try increasing hose numbers a little and try it tomorrow if i get time

[ACG_Jaydog]

I fly in VR ....Since the last update, it takes waaaay to long to load map and missions, and then the game crashes 75% of the time when I go to the map F10. It's such a waste of time trying to get the game to run again the way it did before the last update. I've sent at least 30 crash reports, so I hope ED is going to find a fix for it

[Qcumber]

1 minute ago, ACG_Jaydog said:

I fly in VR ....Since the last update, it takes waaaay to long to load map and missions, and then the game crashes 75% of the time when I go to the map F10. It's such a waste of time trying to get the game to run again the way it did before the last update. I've sent at least 30 crash reports, so I hope ED is going to find a fix for it

What are your pc specs etc? Is this just the Cold War Germany map? 

[ACG_Jaydog]

M

6 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

What are your pc specs etc? Is this just the Cold War Germany map? 

My specs.......   Motherboard: ASUS Prime Z790-V D5 (Wi-Fi) CPU: i9-14900k GPU: MSI RTX 4090 128GB RAM DDR5 4800MHz Kingston FURY Beast 1500W Corsair HX1500i (Modular) (80 Plus Platinum) Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (4TB Kingston Fury Renegade) (NVM Express) Storage Set 2: 1x SSD (4TB Samsung 870 EVO) Storage Set 3: 1x SSD M.2 (1TB Digital Storm M.2 Performance Series) (NVM Express)

 

 

It happens with just about every map. It never took long to load in and rarely crashed and it shouldn't with rig. I've deleted metashaders, fxo...nothing has improved it.  Since the last big update that included teh Germany map and vers ending in 599, it has been a disaster. Waste too much time trying to play in multiplayer servers.

[SharkFanatic]

this issue does not exist at all on my machine- although i can clearly see it effecting other people. I'm on nvidia driver version "566.14" with a gtx 4080

[Kiwi_Viper]

i think i found a little trick that so far seems to work, it improves load times and that stutter you had Spicysauced for me now its gone completely.

flying over that whole area now is totally normal

if you use nvidia profile inspector and turn on resizable bar and change these 3 options it acually works, just because we turn it on in the bios the driver disables it in a lot of games , you might need to try a couple of the diff size options but its definitely worth a shot.

 just make sure you do it for DCS own profile not the global one hope it helps you guys like it did me. ops nearly forgot, apparently it only works on 30 series cards and up

Edited May 3 by Kiwi_Viper

[Spicysauced]

Thanks @Kiwi_Viper, that's in interesting approach for sure. I think what happens here is, that forcing ReBar on also forces better interaction between VRAM and RAM.
Since I'm currently happy with the "solution" aka workaround posted above, I'm a bit afraid to try this and break things again, but if someone else could chip in and test it thoroughly I'd be very thankful, also my curiosity would be satisfied
Additional thought: If that works for more people, it would mean that ReBar isn't actually on in DCS despite it being on in BIOS and driver. You're absolutely correct too about ReBar only being available on RTX3000 and up. Unfortunately I have no idea how that would work for AMD users.

[Spicysauced]

Let me add one more thing that I didn't mention before. If you have a card with 8, 10 or 12 GB of VRAM you have surely noticed that DCS fully pegs that storage. I don't know how it is for card with even more VRAM but from what I've seen even very high amounts are "utilized" fully. Limiting the hard-coded precaching with my solution leads to reduced VRAM load, see picture.
This is on Contention, on the Germany map, in a Hind, with OBS and Discord running. You can see 6.4 GB of 8 GB used. Now there is the fraction of people saying unused (V)RAM is bad RAM. But I only partly agree. While (V)RAM is indeed the fastest memory in your computer, and utilizing it is good when done efficiently, we all know too well, that DCS does a lot of things, but what it surely doesn't do is to use hardware resources efficiently. In these bottlenecked cases, may they be caused by engine-related inefficiencies, or map bugs, pegged (V)RAM takes "breathing room" away for the system to deal with said issues.

Since I have now played extensively with my workaround applied, about 7 hrs of online gameplay, and the stuttering hasn't returned yet, I'm close to calling it a day regarding the issue. The bug is obviously still there, and needs to be fixed, but as I already pointed out on the Discord thread related to the bug, the ball is now in ED's or Ugra's court.
We as users can't do more.

For anyone who comes across the issue, and to this thread via Google or otherwise, please apply my, as well as Kiwi_Viper's workarounds, and you should be at least better off than before, in the best case you won't see any stutter at all anymore.

[Kiwi_Viper]

yeh my 4080 super also pritty much pegs the VRAM its generally using about 15.5 GB of the 16 GB depends a little on the map but doesnt vary a huge amount.

yes r-bar isnt on for dcs default it appears to only be on for a few games, strangely enough msfs2024 is on but things run smoother if i disable it lol go figure

[Qcumber]

5 hours ago, Kiwi_Viper said:

yeh my 4080 super also pritty much pegs the VRAM its generally using about 15.5 GB of the 16 GB depends a little on the map but doesnt vary a huge amount.

Is that the actual VRAM use or just VRAM allocation? You can check actual usage in the DCS metrics overlay. With my 5080 I have not seen VRAM use exceed 12Gb even though all 16Gb is allocated to DCS. 

[Kiwi_Viper]

thats actual usage thats according to windows resource monitor which is fairly accuate

[Spicysauced]

18 minutes ago, Kiwi_Viper said:

thats actual usage thats according to windows resource monitor which is fairly accuate

To my knowledge it isn't possible for an external program to "sniff" a program's actual usage. It sees "program X has requested and gotten Y GB", but it does not see what "program x" actually uses. Allocation ≠ usage.
-> https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/any-programs-that-show-vram-usage-not-allocation-vram-allocation-is-not-vram-usage.3664582/

I'm happy to be corrected on that matter, but I think this is still the case. Only the program in question can see itself.

Qcumber has a point there. It would be interesting to know what DCS actually does, and that's indeed visible via the overlay, completely forgot about that.
So, tested again, of course with workaround still in place (Contention, Hind, Damgarten airport this time): Task Manager says allocated 7.3 Gb, DCS says 4.4 GB actually used. I can definitely live with that. So to conclude: The workaround saves both on allocation and actual usage.

[virgo47]

On 5/4/2025 at 11:21 AM, Spicysauced said:

To my knowledge it isn't possible for an external program to "sniff" a program's actual usage. It sees "program X has requested and gotten Y GB", but it does not see what "program x" actually uses. Allocation ≠ usage.
...

Qcumber has a point there. It would be interesting to know what DCS actually does, and that's indeed visible via the overlay, completely forgot about that.
So, tested again, of course with workaround still in place (Contention, Hind, Damgarten airport this time): Task Manager says allocated 7.3 Gb, DCS says 4.4 GB actually used. I can definitely live with that. So to conclude: The workaround saves both on allocation and actual usage.

MSI Afterburner seems to report pretty good number (most of the time within 10 MB difference, rarely more):

However, the total amount of taken VRAM (~7G here) is clearly affected by DCS, whether it is explicitly use by it or not. So even if DCS reports usage way under 8GB, it doesn't guarantee good experience on 8GB card, because what DCS does affects the other usage of the card - even if it is not used by the process itself.

It's not quite about the OP problem, but DCS definitely needs more VRAM than it reports. Way more. It's not just "add 2.5GB for other usage" or "it's just the browser and Windows itself" (not quoting anybody here ). On Germany, I have a much bigger difference between the numbers (example picture is not from Germany map).

Edited May 6 by virgo47

[Kiwi_Viper]

On 5/4/2025 at 9:21 PM, Spicysauced said:

To my knowledge it isn't possible for an external program to "sniff" a program's actual usage. It sees "program X has requested and gotten Y GB", but it does not see what "program x" actually uses. Allocation ≠ usage.
-> https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/any-programs-that-show-vram-usage-not-allocation-vram-allocation-is-not-vram-usage.3664582/

I'm happy to be corrected on that matter, but I think this is still the case. Only the program in question can see itself.

Qcumber has a point there. It would be interesting to know what DCS actually does, and that's indeed visible via the overlay, completely forgot about that.
So, tested again, of course with workaround still in place (Contention, Hind, Damgarten airport this time): Task Manager says allocated 7.3 Gb, DCS says 4.4 GB actually used. I can definitely live with that. So to conclude: The workaround saves both on allocation and actual usage.

ive always used windows one but ill see what the dcs one says and compare them.

ok just run quick berlin test, yeh its showing 8.3 gb on average compared to 15gb in windows one (interesting) kinda makes sense as its smooth silk right now and thats flying the F16 at 370ft, 575 knots directly through berlin so maybe ill keep using dcs own stats, iuse its fps and frame times just never looked at mem useage thanks for the headsup

Edited May 5 by Kiwi_Viper

[IceyJones]

can confirm. massive FPS drops when looking at exactly the marked area by spicy

RTX3080