[NO BUG] FFB, running out of nose down pitch trim in level flight

[Chipwich]

I use a Moza AB9 with the lates firmware (1.1.1.45) and DCS (2.9.15.9599).  MP and SP missions, various maps.  I noticed this yesterday and could repeat it today.  I realized that to maintain level flight, I was more of less out of nose down pitch trim. Altitude hold refused to engage from level flight. I tried various maps, altitudes, air speeds, throttle positions. all with similar results.  Other modules function normally.

F-4E pitch trim in approximate level flight. Still wants to climb slightly.

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Before launching DCS I checked to see if it was a controller issue.  Both Windows and the Virpil Joy Test app show return to center when stick is released.

Other modules do not exhibit the same behavior.  F-5E in level flight.

Thank you.

[Zabuzard]

Is that all the time or just sometimes?
If latter, possibly you froze your bellows intake?

What does your ingame control-indicator say when it happens?

Do you have a track file, fast would help a lot :)

[Chipwich]

It’s all the time. The second image shows negative displacement on the Y axis when the stick is centered, which is how it looks when in level flight in the Phantom. Like I’m flying with flaps or speed brakes extended, which I’m not. It was fine before the latest 2 DCS patches. Not sure which one exactly, because they were so close together. Will attach a track file asap. 
 

Edit: it looks like there were a lot of input updates in .9408. 
 

• Inputs: Added pitch feel trim neutral position smoothing settable from the special option menu
• Inputs: Increased pitch feel trim dampening (reduces stick oscillations)
• Inputs: Added keybinds for radar altimeter (test button, low altitude warning knob)
• Inputs: Added missing keybinds for TACAN panels (Inc/Dec/Next, axes)
• Inputs: Added AXIS bind for HUD shutter
• Inputs: Fixed the Inc/Dec command misbehaviour in some knobs

 

Short track: [F-4E] Instant Action Afghanistan Free Flight.trk

Edited April 28 by Chipwich

[Super Grover]

What was your approximate neutral stick position (zero force) with that position of the trim?

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

4 hours ago, Chipwich said:

It’s all the time

Regardless of whether you air-start, hot-start on the ramp/runway, or cold-start?

[Chipwich]

12 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Regardless of whether you air-start, hot-start on the ramp/runway, or cold-start?

Yes.  Only in the F-4E. Cold start on the ramp, hot start on the ramp, runway start, and air start, single player mission, multiplayer normal and dynamic spawn.  BTW, the track that I sent is the included Instant Action Afghanistan Free Flight mission and also has the Jester loss of cabin pressure callout right after start.

Edit: to clarify, if you spawn cold and dark or hot ramp, there is no pitch up.  It feels normal.  But once you start rolling for takeoff, as the airspeed increases, so does the tendency to pitch up, requiring forward stick pressure or trim. So, for a normal takeoff, if you only input 3 units nose down, you easily over-rotate and get a hook or tail strike (haven't watched it yet) if you apply half aft stick at 100 KIAS.

Edited April 28 by Chipwich

[Chipwich]

13 hours ago, Super Grover said:

What was your approximate neutral stick position (zero force) with that position of the trim?

Physically and logically centered as shown in the Windows USB game controllers and the VPC Joy Test applets above.  Interestingly, as soon as you spawn in the Phantom, if you are in flight, the aircraft wants to pitch up with force.  Applying nose down trim relieves that, but only when it is at max input trim, as seen in the first image above.

[Super Grover]

But since you run the Moza, with the forward trim (2-3 units nose down), the stick should want to move forward and stay around 30-50% forward from the centre. If it wants to stay in the centre, it may be that the stick base doesn't receive the proper FFB signal or the FFB signal is ignored.

Edited April 28 by Super Grover

[MAXsenna]

Physically and logically centered as shown in the Windows USB game controllers and the VPC Joy Test applets above.  Interestingly, as soon as you spawn in the Phantom, if you are in flight, the aircraft wants to pitch up with force.  Applying nose down trim relieves that, but only when it is at max input trim, as seen in the first image above.

You're not using any curves or saturation in the Phantom by chance?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

1 hour ago, Chipwich said:

Interestingly, as soon as you spawn in the Phantom, if you are in flight, the aircraft wants to pitch up with force.

There's something very wrong with your control setup, then. If I spawn in that very same IA mission, I need to trim up to maintain level flight (about 2 clicks will do the trick).
I just watched your track replay, and I indeed see -5 degree down trim and you still keep pressing down trim. As soon as I take control in your track, the plane does a violent -3G pushover and dives straight to the ground.

As Maxsenna said, and as been stated in pretty much every thread in the last few years where people have weird problems with FFB, you should double check your DCS axes controls to make sure you have 0 deadzones, 0 curves and 100 saturation on both X and Y. Any other setting will mess up FFB.

[Chipwich]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

You're not using any curves or saturation in the Phantom by chance?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

And we have a winner!  I reset the DCS Joy_Y and Joy_X tuning and that fixed it. Thank you!

Here is what I was running, which is pretty similar to what I run for other modules FWIW.null

[Chipwich]

56 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

As Maxsenna said, and as been stated in pretty much every thread in the last few years where people have weird problems with FFB, you should double check your DCS axes controls to make sure you have 0 deadzones, 0 curves and 100 saturation on both X and Y. Any other setting will mess up FFB.

Yeah, I'm an FFB newb.  Thanks for the replies.