check procedures AI CPG not lasing targets when in range

[JaroGrozni]

I noticed that when using RF Hellfires, George won't automatically lase the target when it gets in range. He lases it when the target is first detected and then just hangs until i give him the command to scan again or until i cycle the weapons to get him to lase again.

He should lase it in intervals to see how far the target is in my opinion...

The problem persists even if he has free fire selected and the target list populated. He just waits..

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

please include a short as possible track replay example 

thank you 

[Floyd1212]

It's tricky with Limas if you are flying around and hunting a SAM or something.  You want periodic spurts for ranging data, but you may not want to lock in the Target Data until right before you are going to take the shot.  Not sure how you manage something like that through George.

[JaroGrozni]

4 hours ago, Floyd1212 said:

It's tricky with Limas if you are flying around and hunting a SAM or something.  You want periodic spurts for ranging data, but you may not want to lock in the Target Data until right before you are going to take the shot.  Not sure how you manage something like that through George.

I get it that it's probably working as intended but it would be nice to have an option to get a range...or an automatic option for him to check the range if he is on free fire maybe?

 

I will try to get a track as soon as possible.

[MarcT-NL]

Same problem here

[Derbroomaster]

On 7/30/2025 at 1:55 PM, JaroGrozni said:

I get it that it's probably working as intended but it would be nice to have an option to get a range...or an automatic option for him to check the range if he is on free fire maybe?

 

I will try to get a track as soon as possible.

One workaround I use (which I shouldn't have to) is to either...

a) Carry a mix of Kilos and Limas, putting George in SAL mode so that he constantly lases when given a target, which gives the range constantly, or...

b) Don't WAS the Hellfires until you want George to look at a target, then WAS the Hellfires when you're getting ready to engage.

This is a chronic problem that's been identified for well over a year and I've encountered escalating standards of evidence along the way, with no resolution in sight.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

The second option (b) is precisely what you are supposed to do. From AH-64D SMEs:

The CPG cannot designate a target with the laser while RF missiles are actioned without performing a target handover to the missile. And once a target handover is performed (TARGET DATA? is removed from the symbology), you cannot lase the target again to update the target data. The missiles need to be de-actioned to erase the target handover, which is mentioned several times in the DCS AH-64D manual. In general, you shouldn't be flying around with a weapon actioned anyway unless you are about to engage a target, and you can easily have George search, track, and/or lase targets without having him action a weapon at all, since that is what the NO WPN option is for in the first place.

[Floyd1212]

13 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

And once a target handover is performed (TARGET DATA? is removed from the symbology), you cannot lase the target again to update the target data.

We aren't looking for him to hand-off new updated data to the missile, we want him to blip the laser (first detent?) to update the current ranging info to the target only.  That way he knows when he has crossed over the magic 8km threshold and will then obey your suggestion to engage.  As it stands right now, he is oblivious to the fact that you have moved in on the target, and are taking fire at close range, but all he remembers is that the last time he lased the target 2 minutes ago it was still over 8km.

[Derbroomaster]

44 minutes ago, Floyd1212 said:

We aren't looking for him to hand-off new updated data to the missile, we want him to blip the laser (first detent?) to update the current ranging info to the target only.  That way he knows when he has crossed over the magic 8km threshold and will then obey your suggestion to engage.  As it stands right now, he is oblivious to the fact that you have moved in on the target, and are taking fire at close range, but all he remembers is that the last time he lased the target 2 minutes ago it was still over 8km.

Precisely. And this is what the OP described pretty well, which is not a new problem, sadly.

[BIGNEWY]

From an AH-64D SME:

There seems to be a misconception as to the correct procedures for employing the AGM-114L RF missiles, and some players are approaching the problem with the wrong solutions. When engaging targets with an RF missile, you decide when to fire the missile and then perform the target handover to the missile, not the other way around. It's described in the DCS manual, but the AGM-114L has an inertial guidance system to fly to its target when it is fired in LOAL mode. However, the missile is not a JDAM or similar munition that receives GPS augmentation. It is purely inertial, and as seen in other aircraft in DCS that use inertial guidance, this can lead to inaccuracy due to accumulation of errors over time. A target handover to the RF missile should be happening coincidentally with the intent to immediately fire it, not to fire it at some later time. It should be target handover and trigger pull.

With that in mind, the idea that you don't even know if the target is in range of the missile before actioning an RF missile to engage that target is backwards. Because a target handover and trigger pull should go hand in hand, if the intent is to engage a target with an RF missile, the correct procedure is to determine if engagement parameters have been met before committing to the engagement itself. Therefore, you should be using the NO WPN option with George CPG and manually commanding him to designate the target to determine if you are in range to fire (again, it's what NO WPN is there for). If you are in range, then tell him to action MSL with the type set to RF. 

George emulates a real crewmember and the procedures and cockpit workflow of real aircrews. Assigning a weapon system to the AI CPG is not just telling him to action a weapon, it is an implied task to prepare to engage that target with that weapon system, which is why he does everything required to ready that system for engagement and will then fire the weapon if in FREE FIRE. The fact he waits for you to consent to fire if in HOLD FIRE is just so you can ensure the aircraft is pointed in the right direction and the missile isn't going to hit terrain or your wingman.

And ultimately, the OP has yet to provide a track replay demonstrating that there is in fact a bug with the implementation. Commentary from other users that George is not implemented correctly is not relevant if the underlying procedures for employing the weapon correctly are being disregarded.