not a bug Sniper Pod - lack of focus makes it nearly unusable at night

[Posohm]

Hello

It seems like the non XR IR image in the Sniper is a little too fuzzy in non XR modes. Could you please look into this?

Here is a screenshot of a T80 tank column at 10 nm.

nullHere's a comparative video - pilots state that their seeing "breakout" at 11nm - note that they do *not* appear to be in XR mode.

 

null

[Dača]

1 hour ago, Posohm said:

Hello

It seems like the non XR IR image in the Sniper is a little too fuzzy in non XR modes. Could you please look into this?

Here is a screenshot of a T80 tank column at 10 nm.

nullHere's a comparative video - pilots state that their seeing "breakout" at 11nm - note that they do *not* appear to be in XR mode.

 

null

Hello,

Are you sure you are showing right video ? It looks like video presented is actually AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR. Just being tested on F-16 and F-15 by Edwards.

Edited 20 hours ago by Dača

[Posohm]

Fair shout - here´s more videos and shots from those vids - as one can clearly see ( no pun intended) the contrast difference is huge, and that's at around 12nm in couple of those shots in NON XR. Its as if our TGP has a layer of grease covering the lens.

 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by Posohm

[Dača]

26 minutes ago, Posohm said:

Fair shout - here´s more videos and shots from those vids - as one can clearly see ( no pun intended) the contrast difference is huge, and that's at around 12nm in couple of those shots in NON XR. Its as if our TGP has a layer of grease covering the lens.

 

 

Even on Lockheed Martin's video IR images are blurry compared to what we are used with previous Lightening pod. I agree that sniper pod IR image is a bit more blurry in DCS than real life footage (but only non XR), still not that much to be unplayable.

Edited 16 hours ago by Dača

[Posohm]

I disagree, if you look at the DCS shot there, you can barely tell there's an IR signature there. Now minimize the picture to what you would see in VR or at a normal zoom level in 2d - you´ve got yourself a nearly useless image, you can´t even tell the number of blobs there, let alone that they are tank

[Dača]

I did not have such bad image when I was playing with Sniper pod. I'll try again.

[Dača]

1 hour ago, Posohm said:

I disagree, if you look at the DCS shot there, you can barely tell there's an IR signature there. Now minimize the picture to what you would see in VR or at a normal zoom level in 2d - you´ve got yourself a nearly useless image, you can´t even tell the number of blobs there, let alone that they are tank

It looks pretty OK on my side. See pictures. Did you use brightness and contrast buttons to improve picture?

[falconzx]

Maybe i'm saying something obvious, but try to go in CNTL Menu and do the FLIR CALIBRATION. With that done i achieve almost the same quality of the Litening pod, in NON-XR flir modes, i mean.

[Mach3DS]

Try looking at an image that has a real heat signature greater than ambient.  The images are essentially blobs.  I believe it's being caused by too much bloom in the shader.  At 5.7nm I CANNOT resolve that I'm looking at an F-16 in flight without it being at 90 deg profile image.  I believe that it is less sharp an image than were used to but I also believe that the shader bloom is washing out more details than perhaps it should in DCS for a balance of realism vs playability since the MFD screens and images we're using can't display images greater than 1024 resolution as set in the settings (as I understand it, please correct me if I'm wrong)?  So it may be a way to achieveing a more "realistic" effect being able to go from an unresolved blurry image to one that has good detail in XR, but because we're using lower resolution already it's hard to make that a effect compelling without making it more blurry to begin with?  I could be way off base but seems like it could be part of what's happening.  

[Nedum]

11 hours ago, Dača said:

It looks pretty OK on my side. See pictures. Did you use brightness and contrast buttons to improve picture?

For as long as I can remember, ED has had a problem displaying contrasts in the shadows of objects, and is unable to show enough gray steps.
Anyone familiar with analog camera technology knows that high resolution is not necessary to display even the smallest objects at great distances on small monitors.
The “trick” is that contrast and shadows/gray steps give objects a specific shape that the human brain recognizes on a 2D monitor and converts into a three-dimensional object.
In all videos and images of the original data, at the same distances and despite the compression artifacts caused by uploading, the objects are clearly recognizable as aircraft and vehicles, even in BHOT Wide mode. In close-up view, details can be seen at a distance of 12 miles.
You can even recognize what type of aircraft or vehicle it is.
In DCS, nothing at all can be seen at the same distance, no matter how much you play with the brightness and contrast controls. DCS simply does not display shadows on the MFDs as they are constantly seen in the original data. You can see all of this perfectly in your images. All you see are 2D blobs because the gray streps are missing to give the objects the necessary depth so that our brain can generate objects from them.
I just don't understand how you can't see that!

If you look at how blurry and washed out the original images and videos are because this data has obviously been stretched (clearly visible from the fact that the MFD markers are all completely blurry too, like the whole picture, which would not happen), it becomes even clearer that what we see in DCS is significantly worse than what pilots see when they look at their displays.

Let's summarize:
DCS is unable to render enough gray steps as they appear in the original and attempts to simulate a lower image resolution with blur, which removes any depth and contour from objects, regardless of distance.
Unless you explicitly use the digital amplifier in TV mode, all you see are blobs, unlike you can see in the original vids and pictures.
Furthermore, ED is unable to provide a preset for the MFDs that delivers a high-contrast image. It is well known that a pilot has to adjust this image slightly, but the fact that the image of the MFDs delivers an inadequate image, regardless of whether it is a hot start or a cold start, is poor. And you can't make it look like in the vids from the Sniper Pod, no matter what you try, because of the missing gray steps!
Together with the virtually non-existent shadows in modes other than TV, the current Sniper Pod from DCS does not even come close to what the original shows, even within the poor-quality videos.
I would really like to see at least the image quality of the original videos, reduced by processing artifacts, available in DCS.
Anyone who believes this to be the case should please provide the images to prove it!

The image above show nothing like I can see in the Vids from the original Sniper Pod. Where are all the shadows and the gray steps from the contrasts? Please guys, look at the missing gray steps and shadows in DCS! Where are they? How will one simulate the same picture quality if there are not enough gray steps and nearly no shadows? Since when is an analog camera unable to deliver shadows like in DCS?

Please! Look at the original vids and pictures. It's so obvious, that DCS currently doesn't deliver those things! 

 

[Dača]

26 minutes ago, Nedum said:

For as long as I can remember, ED has had a problem displaying contrasts in the shadows of objects, and is unable to show enough gray steps.
Anyone familiar with analog camera technology knows that high resolution is not necessary to display even the smallest objects at great distances on small monitors.
The “trick” is that contrast and shadows/gray steps give objects a specific shape that the human brain recognizes on a 2D monitor and converts into a three-dimensional object.
In all videos and images of the original data, at the same distances and despite the compression artifacts caused by uploading, the objects are clearly recognizable as aircraft and vehicles, even in BHOT Wide mode. In close-up view, details can be seen at a distance of 12 miles.
You can even recognize what type of aircraft or vehicle it is.
In DCS, nothing at all can be seen at the same distance, no matter how much you play with the brightness and contrast controls. DCS simply does not display shadows on the MFDs as they are constantly seen in the original data. You can see all of this perfectly in your images. All you see are 2D blobs because the gray streps are missing to give the objects the necessary depth so that our brain can generate objects from them.
I just don't understand how you can't see that!

If you look at how blurry and washed out the original images and videos are because this data has obviously been stretched (clearly visible from the fact that the MFD markers are all completely blurry too, like the whole picture, which would not happen), it becomes even clearer that what we see in DCS is significantly worse than what pilots see when they look at their displays.

Let's summarize:
DCS is unable to render enough gray steps as they appear in the original and attempts to simulate a lower image resolution with blur, which removes any depth and contour from objects, regardless of distance.
Unless you explicitly use the digital amplifier in TV mode, all you see are blobs, unlike you can see in the original vids and pictures.
Furthermore, ED is unable to provide a preset for the MFDs that delivers a high-contrast image. It is well known that a pilot has to adjust this image slightly, but the fact that the image of the MFDs delivers an inadequate image, regardless of whether it is a hot start or a cold start, is poor. And you can't make it look like in the vids from the Sniper Pod, no matter what you try, because of the missing gray steps!
Together with the virtually non-existent shadows in modes other than TV, the current Sniper Pod from DCS does not even come close to what the original shows, even within the poor-quality videos.
I would really like to see at least the image quality of the original videos, reduced by processing artifacts, available in DCS.
Anyone who believes this to be the case should please provide the images to prove it!

The image above show nothing like I can see in the Vids from the original Sniper Pod. Where are all the shadows and the gray steps from the contrasts? Please guys, look at the missing gray steps and shadows in DCS! Where are they? How will one simulate the same picture quality if there are not enough gray steps and nearly no shadows? Since when is an analog camera unable to deliver shadows like in DCS?

Please! Look at the original vids and pictures. It's so obvious, that DCS currently doesn't deliver those things! 

 

I've attached my images to show noticable difference with my settings and Posohm's current settings. In his picture you cannot see anything, but mine is much better and you can even see IR "dots". I did mention that DCS sniper pod is a bit blurry than RL one, didn't I ? You can look it up above. I was able to use TGP without much problem. With TV mode during the day you can recognize anything. No problems there But with infra red modes, it is blurry. Hard to be sure what type of the tank it is, but I can see it is a tank (but not very far away). Just... a blurry tank.

And use XR processing. It exists for a reason !

Edited 2 hours ago by Dača

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

we will pass on the feedback to the team, but this is not a bug. 

thank you