FFB implementation of the stick pusher/AoA limiter

[Dentedend10]

Hi,

What should the correct behaviour of FFB sticks be at the limiter and past it?

What I experience is, as I reach the AoA limit, there is an aggressive vibration. I can't say I feel a clear pulling force, that would match the visuals where the stick moves back slightly to reduce AoA. 

In addition to this problem, it has been mentioned that the override 'button' is not a physical button, but that it represents the force the pilot applies IN ADDITION to pull through the limiter.

I interpret this as follows: constant force buildup to the limiter. Then an additional '17kg' force IRL pulls the stick forward slightly, and then the pilot can further pull past the limiter if they want to override it and increase AoA.

This should translate to FFB too then. Up to the limiter the FFB should not max out, so that it can actually pull forward on the stick (same time as it starts vibrating). Then once it pulled forward a bit, with some additional force I should be able to pull the stick further back (these forces are scaled of course).

How do you guys experience this? Do you think the limiter could be implemented differently to FFB? Any explanation by the devs on this?

Thank you for this amazing module, absolutely loving it!

Edited 17 hours ago by Dentedend10

[AeriaGloria]

I like how it is now because my 25 year old sidewinder can’t do much force lol

[MAXsenna]

I haven't tried the module yet, while I expect it to somewhat like in the FF F-5E with its roll limiter. You "feel" extra force that you have to push through.

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[Dentedend10]

41 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

I haven't tried the module yet, while I expect it to somewhat like in the FF F-5E with its roll limiter. You "feel" extra force that you have to push through.

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I’ll give that a try!

1 hour ago, AeriaGloria said:

I like how it is now because my 25 year old sidewinder can’t do much force lol

what a relic! It could have an implementation like in racing sims where you can adjust the max force the game scales to 

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, Dentedend10 said:

I’ll give that a try!

what a relic! It could have an implementation like in racing sims where you can adjust the max force the game scales to 

You already can, trimming force. I keep mine at 100 

[ARM505]

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting the question correctly, but with my VPForce Rhino, there's the high AoA buffet (from the TelemFFB software), then a very clear and deliberate 'stick push' forward from DCS itself, which you can pull through. Obviously the Rhino can't generate 17kg, but with the stick force set to max it's pretty vigorous nonetheless (I don't keep it at max though). I have mine mounted to the floor with an extension, topped by a Virpil Mongoose T50. It worked with zero issues from day one with the AFC self test, which was a bonus. I think it's doing what you describe properly?

[Dentedend10]

11 minutes ago, ARM505 said:

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting the question correctly, but with my VPForce Rhino, there's the high AoA buffet (from the TelemFFB software), then a very clear and deliberate 'stick push' forward from DCS itself, which you can pull through. Obviously the Rhino can't generate 17kg, but with the stick force set to max it's pretty vigorous nonetheless (I don't keep it at max though). I have mine mounted to the floor with an extension, topped by a Virpil Mongoose T50. It worked with zero issues from day one with the AFC self test, which was a bonus. I think it's doing what you describe properly?

Thanks for the response. I have a Rhino too. When you pull through it, what do you see the virtual stick does? Follow your stick movements, or stay below the limiter visually?

[ARM505]

1 hour ago, Dentedend10 said:

Thanks for the response. I have a Rhino too. When you pull through it, what do you see the virtual stick does? Follow your stick movements, or stay below the limiter visually?

The virtual stick pulls forward, while the real stick of course stays back in my lap - if there's even the smallest movement of the real stick thereafter, the virtual stick immediately repositions to match the real stick.......something like that. It's a bit inconsistent, and I only did a very quick test.

[Dentedend10]

3 hours ago, ARM505 said:

The virtual stick pulls forward, while the real stick of course stays back in my lap - if there's even the smallest movement of the real stick thereafter, the virtual stick immediately repositions to match the real stick.......something like that. It's a bit inconsistent, and I only did a very quick test.

I notice something similar. However when pulling it back again, then the limiter is activated again. So I cannot actually hold the virtual stick beyond the limiter. 
the forces can be very subjective.. I personally cant feel the forward force at the limiter, only the violent shaking. 
I will experiment some more and try the F5 as well for comparison. 

[MAXsenna]

I notice something similar. However when pulling it back again, then the limiter is activated again. So I cannot actually hold the virtual stick beyond the limiter. 
the forces can be very subjective.. I personally cant feel the forward force at the limiter, only the violent shaking. 
I will experiment some more and try the F5 as well for comparison. 

With the roll limiter in the F-5E, you should feel resistance. It shouldn't move the stick either in a push nor pull movement. You have to specifically choose the correct option in the special settings. It's quite self explanatory. If you also choose the linear stick option, the stick will "tilt" forward, so you have less travel forward and more backwards, as in the real aircraft.

Cheers!

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